January 2021 Transfer Window

[Nando]

I wouldn't even say that need to be overly creative in a traditional playmaking sense. Just someone that can break a line carrying the ball centrally would make a huge difference. Bissouma isn't a creative player for Brighton for example, but he's very good at beating a man which opens up space for their more naturally attacking players.

 

[Tony Towner]

We've lacked a creative central midfield player since we got promoted. Someone who can carry the ball and chip in with more goals and assists from central areas but as we have had 3 summer and 3 January windows to get one, it doesn't seem it's the type of player that's in Nunos thinking.

Then you can't consciously reduce your input from WB then which has happened by transitioning from Doherty to Semedo who play the role differently

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

We got rid of Doherty as it was a stupid offer for a very limited player who's 30 soon and was already on the decline.

I mean we could have hung on to him forever but I'm quite glad we didn't. Semedo is miles better.

 

[prawnking]

We got rid of Doherty as it was a stupid offer for a very limited player who's 30 soon and was already on the decline.

I mean we could have hung on to him forever but I'm quite glad we didn't. Semedo is miles better.

Not wanting to get into a Doc/Semedo comparision again, but the above has little to do with Tony's point. We did reduce our input from WB and that's why we're currently relying on unlikely individual brilliance to score most of our goals.

I would dispute that Doc was already on the decline for us last season too, a very biased thing to say considering most people are still tiptoeing around Moutinho, who has been on the wane for 12 months imo

 

[Throbber3]

Donck is a squad player, playing every week. In Nuno's idealised world of 18 strong players supplemented by kids. He's one of the bench 7, Saiss is another

The stats dont add up for that. - Squad: 17games, Starting eleven: 15, Substituted in: 1, On the bench: 1, Suspended: 0, Injured: 4,

He has over 70 appearance for us in three seasons so he is more than filler.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Ask Spurs fans how good he is.

 

[Jinky]

Ask Spurs fans how good he is.

Come on mate, you're better than this.

 

[prawnking]

Ask Spurs fans how good he is.

Again, that's not Tony's point.

And he still has as many PL assists as Nelson this season, from half the games

 

[AndyWolves]

No one can say anything that will make think Doc would have been any better for us this season than he's been for Spurs

 

[Tony Towner]

We got rid of Doherty as it was a stupid offer for a very limited player who's 30 soon and was already on the decline.

I mean we could have hung on to him forever but I'm quite glad we didn't. Semedo is miles better.

2 different things for me. Semedo doesn't provide the assists or goals Doherty did. That's not subjective it's factual to date. That hasn't been replaced elsewhere on the pitch. It's not about one being better or an upgrade on the other, it's about their effectiveness. Other than the fee which isn't relevant to this conversation I had no problem with selling Doherty

 

[Tony Towner]

The stats dont add up for that. - Squad: 17games, Starting eleven: 15, Substituted in: 1, On the bench: 1, Suspended: 0, Injured: 4,

He has over 70 appearance for us in three seasons so he is more than filler.

You are supporting my point, not arguing against it

 

[Throbber3]

2 different things for me. Semedo doesn't provide the assists or goals Doherty did. That's not subjective it's factual to date. That hasn't been replaced elsewhere on the pitch. It's not about one being better or an upgrade on the other, it's about their effectiveness.

In fairness if we want to go down that path:-
Fabio V Jota
Semedo V Doherty
Marcal V Vinagre

I would say we are about 8-10 goals down so far this season.

Would Doherty improve us if he arrived at 2259 tonight? The jury is out, but the replacements have not stepped up or had the impact anticipated.

 

[Throbber3]

You are supporting my point, not arguing against it

Ah ok. I misunderstood your post. In which case why has he made so many appearances? Is that on recruitment?

 

[prawnking]

Would Doherty improve us if he arrived at 2259 tonight? The jury is out, but the replacements have not stepped up or had the impact anticipated.

I don't think anyone is saying/wants that (it would be hilarious though tbh); it's not about Doc.

To me, it does rather suggest we were expecting the forwards to assist and score all the goals this season though!?

 

[Tony Towner]

Ah ok. I misunderstood your post. In which case why has he made so many appearances? Is that on recruitment?

I think it's to do with the role expected of him this season and is linked to the Doherty point. We changed the RWB to one who could be defensively more solid, but wasn't going to get the goals and assists his predecessor did. Rather than the RWB arriving late in the box that's been Doncks job. He should have 5/6 goals this season which then covers what you've lost from elsewhere - he misses them though which is why it's not working. Basically if we have Soucek in there instead of him, doing similar roles apart from the finishing then things would look a lot rosier

 

[AndyWolves]

We've been subjectively and statistically worse than last season. Would Doc have scored and assisted as many this season as last season? I don't think he would.

Had Semedo been playing for us in previous seasons would he have scored & assisted as many as Doc did? Maybe, but I know for sure he'd have better stats in a better performing side.

 

[AndyWolves]

I think it's to do with the role expected of him this season and is linked to the Doherty point. We changed the RWB to one who could be defensively more solid, but wasn't going to get the goals and assists his predecessor did. Rather than the RWB arriving late in the box that's been Doncks job. He should have 5/6 goals this season which then covers what you've lost from elsewhere - he misses them though which is why it's not working. Basically if we have Soucek in there instead of him, doing similar roles apart from the finishing then things would look a lot rosier

That's a really good observation.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Donk is a good DM to a point, but one of his big strengths is his stamina, which is only really an asset if he’s getting forward because he can get back as well. His passing is decent, but not really progressive, lots of sideways and backwards stuff. He can’t dribble with the ball, isn’t technical enough to create chances and can’t shoot.

what that means is that he’s a limited defensive midfielder, that can only do a third of the role (defend, not progressive passing and can’t progress the ball through dribbling or one touch pass and move).

He’s also out of form at the moment so not doing the defensive bit well either, but that should be temporary.

personally, I think we need more than one dimensional footballers - our midfielders, even though they will be stronger in some aspects should be able to defend and progress the ball, to contribute to the defensive effort and to create or finish opportunities.

our defenders should be able to defend and contribute to build up play.

our forwards should be able to create and score as well as contribute to the shape.

we moved Bennett on because he could defend but not contribute well enough. Traore is rightly criticised for not scoring enough. I don’t see why dendoncker is okay to only do part of his role.

he’s not a defender either, square pegs in round holes still isn’t the right way to go in my view.

What you’re basically describing is a player who doesn’t exist/ is the best in the world.

We should be comparing him to other DMs like Ndidi, Dier, Kante, Romeu, Luiz, Fred, Hayden. None of them are really progressive passers. Get the ball and give it to someone who is or pass it to a FB.

None of them really goalscorers from midfield (apart from edge of the box stuff, but Neves is the one there off
et pieces),

He is not a limited defensive midfielder, he can do all the roles expected of him in that position.

The old myth “when we replace Bennett with a ball playing defender we will score loads”. Hasn’t happened has it, because it was bollocks then and is bollocks now. We don’t ask our CBs to step in, they hold hands on the halfway line (even when losing to palace). This is one of the fundamental issues with Nuno’s 3 at the back, not a defensive formation but the way he plays it is.

Some teams play the DM as a deep lying playmaker (Jorginho, Pirlo), some people play is as a ball winner and runner (Kante, Ndidi). Some teams play both in a 4-2-3-1 with more attacking players ahead.

Our issues are tactical, not personnel. I have no idea how people can’t see it.

 

[YoungWolf]

Nuno says they don't expect anything before the deadline

 

[Throbber3]

Nuno says they don't expect anything before the deadline

caution- twitter meltdown approaching