January 2021 Transfer Window

[prawnking]

Had Semedo been playing for us in previous seasons would he have scored & assisted as many as Doc did? Maybe, but I know for sure he'd have better stats in a better performing side.

In their respective leagues, Semedo had 1 goal and 4 assists last year and 1 goal and 2 assists the year before, compared to Doherty with 4 goals and 4 assists last year and 4 goals and 7 assists the year before.

So his assists are OK and his goals are seemingly not really a feature (this is for Barcelona). I can accept he's a better player than Doc, but in terms of tangible output, we can't expect him to replicate Doc so why weren't we signing goals and assists for anywhere else?

Along with Marcal (1 assist and no goals over the past two seasons) Nelson was our only real senior signing too

 

[The Bion]

Leverkusen apparently asking €50m for Tapsoba. Think we can file that one under missed the boat, along with Dias

 

[AndyWolves]

In their respective leagues, Semedo had 1 goal and 4 assists last year and 1 goal and 2 assists the year before, compared to Doherty with 4 goals and 4 assists last year and 4 goals and 7 assists the year before.

So his assists are OK and his goals are seemingly not really a feature (this is for Barcelona). I can accept he's a better player than Doc, but in terms of tangible output, we can't expect him to replicate Doc so why weren't we signing goals and assists for anywhere else?

Along with Marcal (1 assist and no goals over the past two seasons) Nelson was our only real senior signing too

Playing different roles in different systems too.
He won't replicate Doc because he plays a different role now - I can't remember who said it but it's Donck arriving late into the box now rather than Doc. I guess before either Donck or Neves were filling in on the right hand side.

I won't deny that Doc was very prolific in terms of goals & assists. I guess Nuno though Donck would contribute in a similar way. I think it's reasonable to also expect a better output from our other attacking players too if they're having to defend less if the WBs & FBs are staying back. But as you've said, such a transition in playing style is hard to achieve in a few weeks worth of preseason

 

[YoungWolf]

Leverkusen apparently asking €50m for Tapsoba. Think we can file that one under missed the boat, along with Dias

If we really rate him, we should just pay that in the summer tbh. Or near enough to it.

 

[AndyWolves]

Leverkusen apparently asking €50m for Tapsoba. Think we can file that one under missed the boat, along with Dias

I think we were interested when Boly was injured but Nuno decided that Donck was good enough - is that true or just internet bollocks?

 

[Wolvensam]

I wouldn't even say that need to be overly creative in a traditional playmaking sense. Just someone that can break a line carrying the ball centrally would make a huge difference. Bissouma isn't a creative player for Brighton for example, but he's very good at beating a man which opens up space for their more naturally attacking players.

I think this is what Dendoncker attempts to do (in terms of uses his movement to create space for others)

 

[Johnny75]

In their respective leagues, Semedo had 1 goal and 4 assists last year and 1 goal and 2 assists the year before, compared to Doherty with 4 goals and 4 assists last year and 4 goals and 7 assists the year before.

So his assists are OK and his goals are seemingly not really a feature (this is for Barcelona). I can accept he's a better player than Doc, but in terms of tangible output, we can't expect him to replicate Doc so why weren't we signing goals and assists for anywhere else?

Along with Marcal (1 assist and no goals over the past two seasons) Nelson was our only real senior signing too

Both Semedo and Marcal are better FB's than WB's, which make me think that they weren't signed to replace the output of Jonny/ Doc and probably more for a 4-2-3-1 which Nuno clearly wants to transition to.

You would therefore expect the goals to come from Adama/ Pod/ Neto and that hasn't happened and Donk has been appalling and it is failure that Nuno has expected Donk to score goals.

It's not insurmountable though and a change to 4-2-3-1 or even 4-1-2-3 (Leicester) would probably work for us but Nuno has to commit to it.

 

[prawnking]

I won't deny that Doc was very prolific in terms of goals & assists.

I don't see how you could, they're pretty unassailable facts

Re: Donk 'replacing' Doc's output, I think it's difficult to tell how much of that was planned and how much was just a bit of 'let's try this' (same as going to a back four all of a sudden).

Either way you look at it, not replacing Doc directly or trying to get the same output from a player in a different position who has never had those characteristics (Donk) doesn't look like a well-thought-out move.

I think there's potential with RAN in terms of assists and possibly goals, but he's still very young.

It sounds a little unforgiving, but in conclusion I think signing one less 'player for the future' and instead getting in someone who could do the current Donk role better would have been wiser and preferable. That's hindsight for a no-nothing like me, it shouldn't be for Nuno and co really.

 

[prawnking]

Both Semedo and Marcal are better FB's than WB's, which make me think that they weren't signed to replace the output of Jonny/ Doc and probably more for a 4-2-3-1 which Nuno clearly wants to transition to.

You would therefore expect the goals to come from Adama/ Pod/ Neto and that hasn't happened and Donk has been appalling and it is failure that Nuno has expected Donk to score goals.

It's not insurmountable though and a change to 4-2-3-1 or even 4-1-2-3 (Leicester) would probably work for us but Nuno has to commit to it.

Tbf I don't think Neto and Pod (especially the former) have done too badly output-wise in a dysfunctional and disrupted team. Adama's tangible output has been awful I agree. This time last season he had his 4 goals and already 4 assists.

I still think it's a bit lopsided to be expecting all our goals and assists from the front three though, but we certainly aren't going to get that much from the central midfield (especially Donk and Joao in current form)

 

[Johnny75]

We have obviously lost Raul's output which is the real killer.

I think everybody expects the vast majority of goals to come from attacking players and other players to chip in with one or two at best.

 

[AndyWolves]

I don't see how you could, they're pretty unassailable facts

Re: Donk 'replacing' Doc's output, I think it's difficult to tell how much of that was planned and how much was just a bit of 'let's try this' (same as going to a back four all of a sudden).

Either way you look at it, not replacing Doc directly or trying to get the same output from a player in a different position who has never had those characteristics (Donk) doesn't look like a well-thought-out move.

I think there's potential with RAN in terms of assists and possibly goals, but he's still very young.

It sounds a little unforgiving, but in conclusion I think signing one less 'player for the future' and instead getting in someone who could do the current Donk role better would have been wiser and preferable. That's hindsight for a no-nothing like me, it shouldn't be for Nuno and co really.

We'll never know exactly how Nuno envisaged this new system to work, moving Doc on and having a FB/WB who could defend should mean that other players are freed-up to an extent and don't have to have as much defensive responsibility (maybe that's why Semedo was getting overloaded so much when he first arrived?) and can therefore contribute more from an attacking sense. So rather than looking for a direct replacement in terms of goals & assists, a team more able to attack should be sourcing more goals & assists from more than one place - clearly that hasn't happened. Traore has been dry for far too long, Podence and Neto have bagged some goals, Fabio could and should have had more and so should Donck. However. as you say, if you're relying on a player to score goals who can't the system kind of falls down a bit(!)

 

[Wolvensam]

Have we ever got many goals from Joao, Donk or Neves over the last two seasons?

In my mind it has always been Raul, Jota, Traore and Doherty topping it. The three mentioned above have chipped in with a few, same with Boly and Jonny.

 

[Deano]

The problem is we were always too reliant on Raul anyway. Don't get me wrong youre always going to be to an extent when you have a striker who's that good, but I saw somewhere that he'd had a direct contribution to over 40 percent of our goals. When you add on 24 goals in all competitions that Jota and Doherty got you need more from everywhere else.

You certainly can't be having all of Neves, Moutinho, Traore and Boly going over 30 games without goals, Dendoncker has 0 this season and the players we have used as first choice wing backs (Semedo, Marcal and Ait-Nouri) have 1 between them.

 

[Wolvensam]

Not excusing their output - just making the point that I think we never noticed it before as we had goals coming from other places on the pitch.

I'd say Traore has been the disappointing one - Boly does OK for a CB, and Neves and Moutinho have hardly ever contributed to our goal tally. Nor have either of them been particularly prolific in their careers before us to suggest they were going to miraculously start contributing this season.

 

[prawnking]

Obviously all these points are also exacerbated by how we're playing this season. Most of our attacks tend to be one of the wide forwards trying to beat everyone on their own, and 75% of our team barely makes it over the half-way line!

 

[Deano]

Not excusing their output - just making the point that I think we never noticed it before as we had goals coming from other places on the pitch.

I'd say Traore has been the disappointing one - Boly does OK for a CB, and Neves and Moutinho have hardly ever contributed to our goal tally. Nor have either of them been particularly prolific in their careers before us to suggest they were going to miraculously start contributing this season.

I'd say Boly should score more. Before his goal Vs West Brom he had gone over 30 games without a goal which is not great. Dendoncker scored more before this season I always felt he was good for 5 or 6 a season which is still not great but his finishing appears to have fallen off a cliff. Neves and Moutinho not contributing just underlines the need for a player in the position that carries a bigger goal threat.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Don't Son and Kane have about a 75% contribution to all of Spurs' league goals this season?

We shouldn't be expecting a RWB to do that much, in fact we created that role specifically for Doherty as he's a dreadful defender.

 

[prawnking]

I'd say Traore has been the disappointing one

Definitely. But I will say that I feel he's missed Raul more than anyone. He was never much of a goalscorer (half of his tally last season came in one game), but his assists were excellent. There's little interplay in the forward line without Raul and Doc, and now if he gets a decent cross in at all (big ask) he doesn't really have anyone in the box to make use of it.

 

[Wolvensam]

I'd say Boly should score more. Before his goal Vs West Brom he had gone over 30 games without a goal which is not great. Dendoncker scored more before this season I always felt he was good for 5 or 6 a season. Neves and Moutinho not contributing just underlines the need for a player in the position that carries a bigger goal threat.

I think I disagree on Boly - he has only ever really gotten 2-3 a season (if that) and that's okay for a CB. I think Donck has only ever gotten 5 in his entire Wolves career.

I reckon Nuno suspected Neto, Podence and Traore would step up and contribute. The former have to some extent but Traore has been very poor - he isn't coping well with having 3-4 men double up on him just like his team mates aren't doing a good job of exploiting the space that creates.

 

[Walnut]

I have said it before, but Neves is to me a playmaker with his range of passing.