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Israel-Palestine

Because, as we all know, criticism = anti-semitism. It's not just HRW, it's the UN, It's the ICC, it's the EU, it's Amnesty, it's the BBC, it's, well, it's everyone, isn't it? They're all riddled with anti-semitism, they lie about the situation in Gaza to make Israel look bad.

Obviously banning the press is the natural response to that. If only there was someway you could prove that you weren't using starvation as a weapon of war, or dishing out collective punishment, prove it beyond reasonable doubt that you're innocent and your warfare tactics have been legal and proportionate, and that everyone is just a big old anti-semetic liar.
 
At this point I'm starting to believe visage is a Mossad agent. It's absolutely not worth engaging with him on any level apart from passive aggressively laughing at his posts. Because that's what they are: laughable propaganda.
 
Dire Wolf said:
At this point I'm starting to believe visage is a Mossad agent. It's absolutely not worth engaging with him on any level apart from passive aggressively laughing at his posts. Because that's what they are: laughable propaganda.
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I’ve no dog in this fight and deliberately stay out of the debate but it’s interesting watching impartially. As I see it Vis makes some very fair points and defends his corner, as do you.

There must be valid points on both sides but it feels as though neither side can ever give even an inch and when a nerve is touched it descends into insults and ridicule.

I’m sure it’s nowhere near as bad on TWF as elsewhere, but it hard to see any sort of successful resolution if one or the other side see themselves as 100% right and the other 100% wrong.
 
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I do sometimes wonder if views would be different if the tech levels between the protagonists were different, but all other intentions and motivations were the same
 
Dire Wolf said:
At this point I'm starting to believe visage is a Mossad agent. It's absolutely not worth engaging with him on any level apart from passive aggressively laughing at his posts. Because that's what they are: laughable propaganda.
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Ah, yes, because everyone who isnt rabidly anti-Israel must be in the pay of the Jews?

Nice conspiracy theory you have there.
 
@AndyWolves By 'tech' I'm going to presume you mean the overall suite of military, economic, geopolitical and diplomatic advantages?

I think they come into it very definitely as it's the starkest area in which this is anything but a war of equals - maybe there is a small group of people that want 'the underdog to win' as it were, but it's more about seeking a freedom for the oppressed than just cheering for the little guy.
 
AndyWolves said:
I do sometimes wonder if views would be different if the tech levels between the protagonists were different, but all other intentions and motivations were the same
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I think the main consequence of Hamas having the same military capabilities as Israel would be a second Shoah.
 
EpsomWolf said:
I’ve no dog in this fight and deliberately stay out of the debate but it’s interesting watching impartially. As I see it Vis makes some very fair points and defends his corner, as do you.

There must be valid points on both sides but it feels as though neither side can ever give even an inch and when a nerve is touched it descends into insults and ridicule.

I’m sure it’s nowhere near as bad on TWF as elsewhere, but it hard to see any sort of successful resolution if one or the other side see themselves as 100% right and the other 100% wrong.
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I do have views but still agree with this post, not everything is as binary one side is right and the other is not. I welcome seeing views from all sides, it helps inform understanding of where each is coming from and agree or not, putting yourself in the shoes of others can be quite powerful. Ultimately, society won't have that level of debate though, and this forum is pretty mild in how it does it compared to more public arenas.
 
It’s really hard for me to take pro-Israel stances seriously given how blatantly they hold and wield power over the Palestinian people.

We’re talking about a government that has targeted civilian hospitals. A government that says “we’re being careful” whilst murdering tens of thousands of innocent people. There is no argument for preserving the Israeli state as-is that holds water in my mind.
 
Alan said:
It’s really hard for me to take pro-Israel stances seriously given how blatantly they hold and wield power over the Palestinian people.

We’re talking about a government that has targeted civilian hospitals. A government that says “we’re being careful” whilst murdering tens of thousands of innocent people. There is no argument for preserving the Israeli state as-is that holds water in my mind.
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I don't think anyone disagrees with those examples being inhumane Alan, not even the Israeli parliament or country is close to united in supporting it's actions in the last year+ specifically in this new phase of war. Netanyahu was even voted out in 2021, and in the current guise of a government he is not exactly a majority leader with a coalition propping him up.

Right to exist as a country is a tricky subject, and shouldn't be conflated in war - but is because few systems exist for a peaceful solution sadly.
 
I guess my thing is that the powerful have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. There is no alternative to violence because they do not want there to be one, because they know they can spin any violent retaliation into a justification that the world is clearly all too ready to buy.
 
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