General Wolves News

[YoungWolf]

I think we are in violent agreement on this. I think the Rooney rule (as Proslo states) is too weak. It should go much further into background, ethnicity, gender and all should be interviewed if they have the relevant qualifications or are willing to work on those qualifications (imagine football clubs hiring apprentice coaches just to coach and have a long term plan for them, like every other business in the UK).

It really does piss me off that supposedly successful business people act like utter cuntpuddles when they own a football club.

Oh absolutely, I think that is what is happening now in America too to push the agenda further is by interviewing more women too.

Ultimately I think a Rooney Rule works better in within academies and other roles in football because they are more likely to have a recruitment process (and actually last season it did work better by all accounts). Whereas with first team football everyone is so consumed by money and quick fixes generally and a proper process just doesnt happen (rightly or wrongly).

 

[Freddeno]

Of course black people have a tougher time getting at the top, manager etc because football is a big part of society..like many other occupations..not about being a former good player..goes all the way back to slavery IMO

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Oh absolutely, I think that is what is happening now in America too to push the agenda further is by interviewing more women too.

Ultimately I think a Rooney Rule works better in within academies and other roles in football because they are more likely to have a recruitment process (and actually last season it did work better by all accounts). Whereas with first team football everyone is so consumed by money and quick fixes generally and a proper process just doesnt happen (rightly or wrongly).

The rule is only applied in a blanket fashion across the FL at Academy level. We (along with nine other clubs) have voluntarily agreed to extend that to first team level. It should be applauded but instead we're getting dragged into the mire again because of that prick Spiers. There was no recruitment process, there can be no breach of the rule.

Having the discussion is healthy, don't drag my fucking club's name through the mud when we've done nothing wrong (that's not aimed at you btw).

 

[YoungWolf]

The rule is only applied in a blanket fashion across the FL at Academy level. We (along with nine other clubs) have voluntarily agreed to extend that to first team level. It should be applauded but instead we're getting dragged into the mire again because of that prick Spiers. There was no recruitment process, there can be no breach of the rule.

Having the discussion is healthy, don't drag my fucking club's name through the mud when we've done nothing wrong (that's not aimed at you btw).

Yeah I know. When we initially announced it I was really pleased with the club. Due to circumstances (ie. Fosun takeover, headhunting Nuno etc) we haven't really been able to showcase it. And as I said earlier I couldn't understand why people were saying we have 'failed' but then I saw that it was an E&S headline? Idiots.

 

[GLASGOWOLF]

How much shit is posted on here.
Football is not racist, how can an organisation that employs Black players on astronomical wages be racist?

if a Black manager was top draw do you really think a club would not employ him??

Imagine this conversation

That manager has won this, he'll win you the league, get you into Europe.
Fuck that he's black I am not employing a black fucking ridiculous.

How many black players have actually gone onto want to manage?
Ince (he is a fucking shit manager)
Powell, no different to any number of managers
English managers get absolutely no opportunity to manage in the top flight, those jobs go to non English.
everyone plays the race card and it's fucking ridiculous, club Owners could not give a fuck if a manager is White, Brown, Black, Yellow, Purple with Pink Spots, comes from France, Jamaca, USA, or Timbuktoo if they are good they will get the job.

Maybe the question should be asked of black players why they do not want to go on and be managers?
How many former players / Black men actually take there badges ?

 

[Penk Wolf]

Yeah I know. When we initially announced it I was really pleased with the club. Due to circumstances (ie. Fosun takeover, headhunting Nuno etc) we haven't really been able to showcase it. And as I said earlier I couldn't understand why people were saying we have 'failed' but then I saw that it was an E&S headline? Idiots.

I think if you look at the academy staff that were appointed yesterday we are doing pretty well. For me, it would make more sense to look across the whole of the training set up, whether that is youth or first team rather than trying to make clubs interview certain people for certain jobs, that they will probably never get unless they were purposely asked to interview.

 

[YoungWolf]

Maybe the question should be asked of black players why they do not want to go on and be managers?
How many former players / Black men actually take there badges ?

Ignoring the rest of your post (as we have been over it countless times, even just today) - actually research has been carried out into this by Steven Bradbury long with the SPTT. Here is one of them: http://thesptt.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/SB-final-report-screen3-1.pdf

 

[MARKakaJIM]

It's got to be extremely difficult in any business to recruit for top positions through open application. There's too much resting on those appointments to let anyone throw their hat in the ring, the organisation will need people of a certain approach to fit in at that level and so rightly would approach those people rather than wait for applicants that fit.

If a football club sacks a manager and just waits to see who's interested then they're effectively rudderless in the mean time and results are likely to suffer. If it's only an academy coach or something then it's easy to make do in the meantime and cast the net further.

I don't see that being any different to any other industry. If I handed in my notice I would expect the company to advertise a vacancy for my replacement and see who applied. They might end up with a gap waiting for the right person but others could pick up the slack in the interim period. It's a different story if say the MD or one of the other directors sacked it off, no way would that position be advertised as a vacancy, they'd either look to promote from within or headhunt an equivalent from a rival company.

 

[thehistorymakers]

We have Nuno because Mendes is his agent. We are privileged to have a manager who managed Porto and Valencia. It is probable that without Nuno, Nevés may have never signed for Wolves. Does Mendes have a black manager on his books, that has managed such prestigious teams and was available? If not, colour has nothing to do one way or another to our managerial appointment. Having the world's most powerful and well connected agent does.

 

[pr0sl0]

We've just done that though.

I agree with a system being set up to encourage more people from BAME backgrounds to progress in coaching, because it isn't happening organically. I strongly object to Wolves being slagged off along the way. This is not something you can pin on us. How long were Terry Connor and Tony Daley employed at first team level?

Yes, I agree. Clearly the Rule isn't flexible enough as it is to address the actual specifics of structural discrimination in English football.

Also, on the point about ex-players being prioritised for coaching roles, obviously that's ridiculous - it narrows the pool of candidates severely from the start, playing the game is not the same as understanding it, nor understanding how to explain and teach others how to play it. But it's also another illustration of the closed shop of English football. Even when prioritising for former players, a group which is now disproportionately more black people than the general population, the coaches that get hired tend to be white.

 

[Johnny75]

How much $#@! is posted on here.
Football is not racist, how can an organisation that employs Black players on astronomical wages be racist?

if a Black manager was top draw do you really think a club would not employ him??

Imagine this conversation

That manager has won this, he'll win you the league, get you into Europe.
$#@! that he's black I am not employing a black $#@!ing ridiculous.

How many black players have actually gone onto want to manage?
Ince (he is a $#@!ing $#@! manager)
Powell, no different to any number of managers
English managers get absolutely no opportunity to manage in the top flight, those jobs go to non English.
everyone plays the race card and it's $#@!ing ridiculous, club Owners could not give a $#@! if a manager is White, Brown, Black, Yellow, Purple with Pink Spots, comes from France, Jamaca, USA, or Timbuktoo if they are good they will get the job.

Maybe the question should be asked of black players why they do not want to go on and be managers?
How many former players / Black men actually take there badges ?

I've got the '80's on the phone for you here, apparently they want their attitude and bananas back. When can I tell them you can deliver in the Delorian?

 

[pr0sl0]

How much $#@! is posted on here.
Football is not racist, how can an organisation that employs Black players on astronomical wages be racist?

if a Black manager was top draw do you really think a club would not employ him??

Imagine this conversation

That manager has won this, he'll win you the league, get you into Europe.
$#@! that he's black I am not employing a black $#@!ing ridiculous.

How many black players have actually gone onto want to manage?
Ince (he is a $#@!ing $#@! manager)
Powell, no different to any number of managers
English managers get absolutely no opportunity to manage in the top flight, those jobs go to non English.
everyone plays the race card and it's $#@!ing ridiculous, club Owners could not give a $#@! if a manager is White, Brown, Black, Yellow, Purple with Pink Spots, comes from France, Jamaca, USA, or Timbuktoo if they are good they will get the job.

Maybe the question should be asked of black players why they do not want to go on and be managers?
How many former players / Black men actually take there badges ?

Please, when people make points about racism being a problem, I urge you to stop going for your gut instinct to think it's bollocks, and listen. There is substantial anecdotal and academic evidence supporting these claims, within football and within wider society.

Instead of reaching for "playing the race card" as an excuse - notwithstanding it's a phrase which only exists to excuse racism - I urge you to listen instead, and consider that maybe your assumptions aren't reflected by reality.

 

[Johnny75]

Yes, I agree. Clearly the Rule isn't flexible enough as it is to address the actual specifics of structural discrimination in English football.

Also, on the point about ex-players being prioritised for coaching roles, obviously that's ridiculous - it narrows the pool of candidates severely from the start, playing the game is not the same as understanding it, nor understanding how to explain and teach others how to play it. But it's also another illustration of the closed shop of English football. Even when prioritising for former players, a group which is now disproportionately more black people than the general population, the coaches that get hired tend to be white.

Regardless of their colour the coaches tend to be the same people. That's the bizarre thing. These supposedly sane business people hire the same buffoons time after time and then these buffoons hire their mates to fill roles they are ill equipped to do.

For example at Port Vale, Michael Brown was promoted to player manager from having no experience or badges but he was the most senior pro in the first team and said he wanted to do it. That's just wrong. He then hires Chris Morgan, a failed manager and by all accounts as intelligent as a concrete post. They then hire Darren Wrack as chief recruiter because they both once played with him.

It's barmy that football can get away with this blatant old boys network. If you did it in any other business your credibility would be rock bottom. It doesn't help the owner of the club is an utter cockpocket mind you.

 

[Banjo]

Positive discrimination helps to provide equality of opportunity and is completely necessary to redress centuries of discrimination - whether direct or indirect.

To say black players make money from football and therefore there is no discrimination completely ignores the lack of black managers and is a total straw man.

 

[Siggy]

Please, when people make points about racism being a problem, I urge you to stop going for your gut instinct to think it's bollocks, and listen. There is substantial anecdotal and academic evidence supporting these claims, within football and within wider society.

Instead of reaching for "playing the race card" as an excuse - notwithstanding it's a phrase which only exists to excuse racism - I urge you to listen instead, and consider that maybe your assumptions aren't reflected by reality.

Does that evidence include the likes of Paul Ince falsely using the race card? If there really is evidence (I would love to see it) that people are being denied an interview or a job based on their skin colour, then those that make those decisions should be sacked.

I just find it unbelievable that a candidate with the correct qualifications and calibre (Chris Hughton for example) wouldn't get a job due to skin colour.

Sorry to use the Paul Ince example again it feels the most relevant.


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[Banjo]

I just find it unbelievable that a candidate with the correct qualifications and calibre (Chris Hughton for example) wouldn't get a job due to skin colour.


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That completely misses the point. It's about getting the opportunity to be interviewed. Indirect discrimination is still discrimination.

 

[darlowolf64]

Could all this BAME discussion be set up on a thread of its own? It's bloody fascinating having the views of people who have come across discrimination in their work and coaching life but it is now getting to a point in the discussion where it has little connection to "General Wolves News".

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Could all this BAME discussion be set up on a thread of its own? It's bloody fascinating having the views of people who have come across discrimination in their work and coaching life but it is now getting to a point in the discussion where it has little connection to "General Wolves News".

Think there was a Rooney Rule thread in Other Sport a while back.

 

[Siggy]

That completely misses the point. It's about getting the opportunity to be interviewed. Indirect discrimination is still discrimination.

Ok let me word it another way, why did Chris Hughton get that opportunity and yet others didn't? He had to start somewhere.

Why is it overwhelmingly obvious that race (in relation to black people for this debate) are not being held back from playing as a result of their skin colour, but apparently are for coaching.

I tried to look at YW's link bit internet is a bit shoddy here.

So if there is evidence I would welcome to read it, who knows you might change my mind [emoji6]

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[Deutsch Wolf]

Hughton got a gig at Spurs as coach primarily because he was a long-standing former player, that's how football works in this country for some reason.