General Wolves News

[Deutsch Wolf]

We're 60/40 or better favourites for 90%+ of our games though.

 

[PuntsWolf]

So he needs to not lose the 10% that he isn’t big favourite for me to think he great.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Quite the bar you're setting for him!

He's done way better than Venables who is consistently venerated for no reason and Sven who I actually liked. Arguably Robson too.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Not really, perfectly reasonable. I haven’t said he shit either, he’s done well and been helped by some luck which his predecessors didn’t have.

Venables too early for me, 98 onwards is what I remember.

 

[Sniffer]

Robson was hounded by the press when he was in charge. The narrative only changed in the years that followed. We were largely shite in tournaments too. Didn’t qualify for Euro 84. Shite in Euro 88. Played well against Poland in 86 and after we were 2 down to Argentina. In 1990 we only played well against the Dutch and Germans. Awful against Ireland, Egypt and we were on our way out against Cameroon.

 

[Tony Towner]

I think it's fair to acknowledge that from a high level view he's done a good job. He's seemingly managed to ensure there aren't any squad cliques and has the press broadly onside. 2 things which have crippled many of his predecessors. He's got us to our first major final in more than 50 years and half of our semis in that period. That said his in game management and failure to react to opposition tactical changes cost us both the Italy and Croatia games

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I just don't think we had the players in 2018. Ashley Young was at LWB with Danny Rose the only replacement, they're both awful.

Since 98 for Punts:

Hoddle
Keegan
Eriksson
McClaren
Capello
Hodgson
Allardyce
Southgate

I was sceptical as his Boro teams were shit and he didn't even seem to want the job, but he's easily done the best job of any of that lot, and as I say go back before, better than Robson, Taylor and Venables. That's nearly 40 years worth so seems churlish to slag him off.

 

[BillyDee]

better than Robson

Is that a generally held concensus?

 

[Sniffer]

Before that Greenwood did well having us unbeaten at Spain 82 with Keegan out injured for most of it. We only just managed to qualify for it though. Perhaps not bold enough against Spain and the Germans (2 0-0 draws) but being 10 I don’t recall much of the games themselves apart from chances for the subs Keegan and Brooking at the end of the Spain game.
Shite at Euro 1980 apart from a fine Wilkins goal.
Revie fecked off as a failure which takes it back to Ramsey.

 

[Tony Towner]

Is that a generally held concensus?

It's been said above, but history judges Robson kinder than he probably deserves. Euro 88 was an absolute embarrassment and we didn't even qualify for 84 (although it was a lot harder then)

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

We were shite in Italia 90 to be honest.

One of the world's worst games ever vs Ireland, ok but 0-0 vs the Netherlands, scraped a 1-0 vs Egypt, scored at the death vs Belgium but they'd been the better side, absolutely bossed by Cameroon and should have been knocked out comfortably, even game vs Germany that could have gone either way.

He doesn't have anything else on his England CV, all he did in 1986 was beat Paraguay and Poland, big wow. I loved Sir Bob and he was a fantastic manager but not for England.

 

[Sniffer]

We were shite in Italia 90 to be honest.

One of the world's worst games ever vs Ireland, ok but 0-0 vs the Netherlands, scraped a 1-0 vs Egypt, scored at the death vs Belgium but they'd been the better side, absolutely bossed by Cameroon and should have been knocked out comfortably, even game vs Germany that could have gone either way.

He doesn't have anything else on his England CV, all he did in 1986 was beat Paraguay and Poland, big wow. I loved Sir Bob and he was a fantastic manager but not for England.

The Belgium game was tight but they hit the post twice IIRC (Enzo Scifo and Tielemans?)

edit: just checked Ceulemans was the other one.

 

[Dire Wolf]

We were shite in Italia 90 to be honest.

One of the world's worst games ever vs Ireland, ok but 0-0 vs the Netherlands, scraped a 1-0 vs Egypt, scored at the death vs Belgium but they'd been the better side, absolutely bossed by Cameroon and should have been knocked out comfortably, even game vs Germany that could have gone either way.

He doesn't have anything else on his England CV, all he did in 1986 was beat Paraguay and Poland, big wow. I loved Sir Bob and he was a fantastic manager but not for England.

Yeah, but he did take Bully to a World Cup so we need to love him for that...

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

The Belgium game was tight but they hit the post twice IIRC (Enzo Scifo and Tielemans?)

Ceulemans!

Barnes had a goal disallowed for nothing earlier on.

 

[PuntsWolf]

I just don't think we had the players in 2018. Ashley Young was at LWB with Danny Rose the only replacement, they're both awful.

Since 98 for Punts:

Hoddle
Keegan
Eriksson
McClaren
Capello
Hodgson
Allardyce
Southgate

I was sceptical as his Boro teams were shit and he didn't even seem to want the job, but he's easily done the best job of any of that lot, and as I say go back before, better than Robson, Taylor and Venables. That's nearly 40 years worth so seems churlish to slag him off.

For one I haven’t slagged him off. I’ve said he’s done well, just not great. Being better than most on that list is a low bar too, he’s also had luck others didnt.

He may not have had an elite squad but he had way better players than all the teams he beat. Probably not much in it between Croatia either. Better midfield but the defence is really poor

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Before that Greenwood did well having us unbeaten at Spain 82 with Keegan out injured for most of it. We only just managed to qualify for it though. Perhaps not bold enough against Spain and the Germans (2 0-0 draws) but being 10 I don’t recall much of the games themselves apart from chances for the subs Keegan and Brooking at the end of the Spain game.
Shite at Euro 1980 apart from a fine Wilkins goal.
Revie fecked off as a failure which takes it back to Ramsey.

Revie wasn’t fucked off as a failure. He took a huge brown envelope from Saudi Arabia.

 

[Dennisons Wrong Foot]

We have had 2 good tournaments under Southgate but it was his limitations more than anything else that cost us against Croatia and Italy. So for him to go down as a good/great England manager he has to learn from his mistakes and either produce a team that will hold onto a 1-0 lead for 80 minutes against a top-ranked team, or better still a team that can score 2 or 3 against anyone.
He didn't learn how between 2018 and 2021, so I'm not sure he will do it in Qatar.

 

[Newbridge Wolf]

Hes abit of a paradox for me, I never liked Southgate as a player, always found him overrated. When he missed that penalty and then doing the pizza hut advert, I hated him for cashing in on what was a massive failure.

I find him overly cautious as a manager, his system is built on defence and within that he can be accused of picking his cronies.

That said, it's hard to ignore that England have been largely superb since he took over us, a final and a semi final is fantastic achievement. He clearly has something the players respect and he is able to give them a belief that no one could before. His game management is questionable but by God he's earnt the right by getting us there.

I will still moan at him, but in my view he will go down as the most successful England manager we've had in my time.

I have had to explain to my boys just how bad England have been in the past which speaks volumes in itself.

 

[Templeton Peck]

The fact that you guys didn't win anything with that group of players in the early-mid 2000s just speaks to how brutal UEFA is as a region.

Most of them never turned up either. Variety of reasons why but most never came close to club form for England.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Is that a generally held concensus?

We weren't great under Robson. Didn't qualify in 84. 86 was OK but 88 was awful. 90s semi was great but we were lucky to get there although we were the better team v Germany.

Southgate has a far greater pool of talent available to him though.