Farage Ltd and Similar Watch

[Parkins left foot]

TSB isn't your last post as much 'headline grabbing' as anything certain media put out, particularly the penultimate paragraph (though presume that you don't have a crystal ball on this issue)?

As to trade & company location I believe that we import more from the EU than we export & would expect that they would have as much reason to try to retain sensible trade arrangements as we would. In addition tax treatment/employment factors will have an impact in where companies locate.

I have to admit to being undecided as to whether in or out is the best option. There are pros & cons to both. If we ever get the chance to vote again will need to make my mind up (though will say that I voted against when Heath gave us the opportunity, but that was as much to do with the fact that I didn't trust him than anything else)

 

[The Saturday Boy]

TSB isn't your last post as much 'headline grabbing' as anything certain media put out, particularly the penultimate paragraph (though presume that you don't have a crystal ball on this issue)?

As to trade & company location I believe that we import more from the EU than we export & would expect that they would have as much reason to try to retain sensible trade arrangements as we would. In addition tax treatment/employment factors will have an impact in where companies locate.

I have to admit to being undecided as to whether in or out is the best option. There are pros & cons to both. If we ever get the chance to vote again will need to make my mind up (though will say that I voted against when Heath gave us the opportunity, but that was as much to do with the fact that I didn't trust him than anything else)

I think my headlines are more broadsheet than tabloid though...

Yup, we import more than we export - but that's a problem in itself because if we come out of the EU unilaterally it could have an impact on the price of imported goods, and not in a good way.

I don't want an in/out referendum. If that is my choice I will vote in because a unilateral withdrawal is more harmful, IMO, than remaining in. If, however, it was a pan European vote for as we are or start again I am way inside the start again camp.

 

[andyc225]

This headline grabbing stuff is fine, but it's just headlines. No substance and certainly no indication of the costs of withdrawal.

Something like half our exports go to the EU, that's a market of 500 million people. Other European countries not in the EU have agreements with the EU on trade but it can't be assumed that we would have those same agreements. We would have to sit down with the countries we have said aren't good enough to be a part of and negotiate a whole new trade agreement - hardly the strongest negotiating position and any detriment on our ability to export to Europe would have a massive impact on our domestic economy.

The EU passes lots of laws which have to be implemented domestically - countries like Norway who are trading partners also have to implement those laws in order to trade so no massive savings to be made there.

British citizens are currently allowed to move anywhere in the EU - imagine the distress if all our ex-pats were told they had to go home?

Many companies use the UK as a base for their EU operations. Given the choice of a market of over 400 million or a market of over 50 million those companies will be off to the continent before the for sale notices are up.

We will be able to catch as many fish as we want mind, not hampered by EU quotas. That will help....Grimsby.

UK leaves Europe, Scotland goes independent and a new Celtic Tiger emerges as English companies up sticks to north of the border when their EU membership is ratified hastily. UKIP win the English General Election and we go to Holyrood to be bailed out. Scotland takes over England but decides that centuries of history can't be tossed away so agree to merge the two countries names - the first 4 letters of Scotland with the last 4 letters of England.

That's the consequence of leaving the EU -- doesn't look so good now does it...?

We run at a trade deficit with the EU; the EU sells us more than we sell to them. If we were to invoke article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon tomorrow, European companies would not stop doing business with the UK. Back in 2000 or thereabouts the Europhile integrationist movement insisted that our economy would dissolve into the ether if we didn't join the Euro without delay. We're still standing and we have the highest rate of growth amongst those countries unfortunate enough to be a member state. By being a member of the EU we also forfeit the right to have our own trading accords. If we regained the right to sign trade deals we could have better relations with the Commonwealth and with other countries which, unlike the majority of the EU's member states, are not in a permanent state of recession.

Surely the last thing Scotland needs is a "Celtic Tiger" style boom? We all know how that went for the Irish. Scrap the Euro, give the PIIGS countries their own currencies back and let them manage their way back to growth. Scrap the European Court of Human Rights, the regular moonlight flit between the star chambers of Strasbourg and Brussels and consign the likes of Van Rompuy, Barroso, Guy Verhofstadt and Cathy Ashton to the dole queues where they belong.

 

[visage]

Nissan have already suggested an EU exit would push them towards leaving the UK.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ssan-We-may-quit-Britain-if-it-leaves-EU.html

 

[The Saturday Boy]

We run at a trade deficit with the EU; the EU sells us more than we sell to them. If we were to invoke article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon tomorrow, European companies would not stop doing business with the UK. Back in 2000 or thereabouts the Europhile integrationist movement insisted that our economy would dissolve into the ether if we didn't join the Euro without delay. We're still standing and we have the highest rate of growth amongst those countries unfortunate enough to be a member state. By being a member of the EU we also forfeit the right to have our own trading accords. If we regained the right to sign trade deals we could have better relations with the Commonwealth and with other countries which, unlike the majority of the EU's member states, are not in a permanent state of recession.

Surely the last thing Scotland needs is a "Celtic Tiger" style boom? We all know how that went for the Irish. Scrap the Euro, give the PIIGS countries their own currencies back and let them manage their way back to growth. Scrap the European Court of Human Rights, the regular moonlight flit between the star chambers of Strasbourg and Brussels and consign the likes of Van Rompuy, Barroso, Guy Verhofstadt and Cathy Ashton to the dole queues where they belong.

Euro is a red herring. We aren't in it so it is largely irrelevant in terms of being in or out of Europe/

I understand that we (a country) are running at a trade deficit but there are a number of individual companies within the UK that would suffer without easy access to the EU market. Should they struggle, then so does our economy. The fact that we import more from a collection of different countries means that they would be better able to spread the risk and might see the reduction of UK imports as a market they could export.

On the subject of Scotland. I thought that it was fairly obviously I wasn't being serious - weird that somebody thought it was.

 

[Parkins left foot]

Problem is that I do not think that there will be an opportunity for a 'start again' - too many vested interests within the system & suspect that Cameron's 'plan' to renegotiate is doomed to failure.

Even if he manages to get a majority of the EU members onside, unless it includes all of the 'big guns' then it will go nowhere and those at the centre who appear to have an allegiance to the EU itself rather than any particular country will attempt to derail at every opportunity.

I suspect that you may have to face an 'in or out' vote at some point (assuming that they keep to their word on giving the electorate a choice - which on past performance I will not hold my breath for)

 

[thehistorymakers]

It also begs the question of how much do you know that isn't conjecture or printed in the daily mail?

For a man who lives in Spain most of the year you are quite damning about the country you live in. Why live there?

Firstly I have never been a Daily Mail reader and I find it a weak attack , if you think someone is better because they don`t read , the same newspaper as you.I would not judge someone , by which newspaper they read.

Secondly , that you think it's conjecture , about corruption in Spain , has more to do with your lack of knowledge , on the subject , than anything else.

The ruling party , has a case in front of the justice system , called El caso Gurtel. It has been going on for over 5 years. More than 90 ruling parties MP's have been implicated . Then you have the ERES , which was a scam , by the then ruling Socialist party and trade unions.They stole 100's of millions , if not over a billion euros , of European funds , that were meant for the people , who were losing their jobs and to start up courses to retrain them.The Socialists and trade unions , invented courses , that werent real , with people , who werent on the courses.Then tomorrow , we have the King's own daughter in front of the courts for corruption.

That is not conjecture , or newspaper reporting , but facts. Maybe you need to change your newspaper , to inform you better .

My point here isn't about Spanish corruption.It's about the EU throwing money into corrupt scams.I understand the Spanish way of life.It took me a long time .But it is the way they do things.I wouldn't ever have understood it , if I hadn't lived here for so long.

I grow olives , every third year , the European union pays me , not to collect my olives.What often happens here , is an inspector comes to check you haven't collected your olives. It is common practice to pay 2000 euros or more , so that the inspector signs a paper saying you haven't collected your olives.But of course you have.The inspector is rich , his family is rich . his boss is rich , and if you were that way inclined , you would have doubled your money.The money for your olives and the money from the european union , for not collecting them. Eventhough i have never done this , it is very common practice.You are almost looked on , as a fool for not doing it. Well this doesn't even come into to the European fraud figures.

Why do I live in Spain ? Because I love it , my wife who is spanish and my kids live here.I love their culture and their family life .It's more relaxed , nice weather , great food ect.

I don't believe in the EU because we are all different and have different cultures.Italians are different from Germans , who are different from French ect.I believe in free trade , but I dont agree with imposing one countries ideals on another.It is a lack of respect for others peoples cultures.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Nissan have already suggested an EU exit would push them towards leaving the UK.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ssan-We-may-quit-Britain-if-it-leaves-EU.html

Well lots of companies have left the UK eventhough we are in the EU .

 

[andyc225]

Nissan have already suggested an EU exit would push them towards leaving the UK.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ssan-We-may-quit-Britain-if-it-leaves-EU.html

This is an interesting case. Nissan tried to use their plant in Sunderland as a bargaining chip to move us towards joining the Euro 14 years ago. They said they would pull out of the country if we didn't join, and funnily enough they're still here. The same hot air has resurfaced in this article too; perhaps there's a way they could channel this into powering an environmentally friendly car?

Euro is a red herring. We aren't in it so it is largely irrelevant in terms of being in or out of Europe/

I understand that we (a country) are running at a trade deficit but there are a number of individual companies within the UK that would suffer without easy access to the EU market. Should they struggle, then so does our economy. The fact that we import more from a collection of different countries means that they would be better able to spread the risk and might see the reduction of UK imports as a market they could export.

On the subject of Scotland. I thought that it was fairly obviously I wasn't being serious - weird that somebody thought it was.

The Scotland thing was an obvious joke that I went along with a little bit for the purposes of the argument. Alex Salmond is desperate for some sort of unsustainable boom to justify his plans for an independent but poorly planned Scotland.

For the handful of companies that suffer for the handful of days it takes to thrash out a free trade deal, there will be millions of smaller businesses freed from burdensome regulations and unnecessary costs. Companies from the continent are not going to stop doing business with the UK and will use their collective influence to lobby the powers that be to push any deal through quickly. The EU trade deficit has remained constant even with the weaker EURGBP market of the last 6 years or so. We need to be serious about our country's prospects and stop talking them down for this so called "common good". We spend £50m or so per DAY simply on membership fees and get less value in return; we are net contributors to the club. Why not spend some of that waste on helping the good people of Somerset whose lives have been ruined over the past few weeks?

 

[The Saturday Boy]

For the handful of companies that suffer for the handful of days it takes to thrash out a free trade deal, there will be millions of smaller businesses freed from burdensome regulations and unnecessary costs.

Like what? I understand that the non-EU countries with trade agreements also have to adopt the same regulations and associated costs.

 

[andyc225]

Like what? I understand that the non-EU countries with trade agreements also have to adopt the same regulations and associated costs.

From my own work, the EU's meddling in the finance industry; they plan to tax my job (and therefore send it to Hong Kong or Shanghai or somewhere like that) to fund the cost of running its institutions. We could talk about things like the Common Agricultural Policy and the Common Fisheries Policy which drive up food costs and destroy jobs. We could throw things like the EU centralised police force into the bargain too. None of these things are wanted but they're being imposed on us by a distant organisation whose unelected apparatchiks have precisely no understanding of how the average British person lives.

We go on about the Norwegian EFTA model but that was designed only to prepare the country for joining the EU; Valéry Giscard and the other EU "pioneers" didn't factor in the outbreak of democracy in Norway. Even today the vast majority of Norwegians oppose full membership of the EU. Why not consider the Swiss model? Rather than adopting the EU's diktats en masse, the Swiss have reached accords with the EU on relevant matters including the Schengen agreement. The CHF currency (and Swiss economy as a whole) is seen, rightly, as a paragon of stability and safety - the Swiss have no intention of jeopardising their position for the purposes of joining the union of debt and poverty.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

Like what? I understand that the non-EU countries with trade agreements also have to adopt the same regulations and associated costs.

You can take it as read that the EU won’t agree a trade agreement which doesn’t give them at least a level playing field. The idea UK business could operate with less regulations and compete against EU nations is fanciful.

On the subject if fisheries it might not even favour Grimsby for two reasons. Firstly the Common Fisheries Policy divided quotas up between member nations - and guess what, most of the UK quota has been sold to operators from other EU nations, notably Spain. If we want to grab it back there would have to be compensation. Secondly the remaining EU quota will have to be landed at EU ports, which will mean places like Grimsby may well lose trade.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

From my own work, the EU's meddling in the finance industry; they plan to tax my job (and therefore send it to Hong Kong or Shanghai or somewhere like that) to fund the cost of running its institutions. We could talk about things like the Common Agricultural Policy and the Common Fisheries Policy which drive up food costs and destroy jobs. We could throw things like the EU centralised police force into the bargain too. None of these things are wanted but they're being imposed on us by a distant organisation whose unelected apparatchiks have precisely no understanding of how the average British person lives.

We go on about the Norwegian EFTA model but that was designed only to prepare the country for joining the EU; Valéry Giscard and the other EU "pioneers" didn't factor in the outbreak of democracy in Norway. Even today the vast majority of Norwegians oppose full membership of the EU. Why not consider the Swiss model? Rather than adopting the EU's diktats en masse, the Swiss have reached accords with the EU on relevant matters including the Schengen agreement. The CHF currency (and Swiss economy as a whole) is seen, rightly, as a paragon of stability and safety - the Swiss have no intention of jeopardising their position for the purposes of joining the union of debt and poverty.

Neither the the repeal if the CAP or CFP would make a significant difference to your economy and should we les the influence we have on the finance industry what's to say the EU wouldn't set itself up to aggressively compete with the City?

I'm just not convinced that the benefits of unilateral withdrawal are all that appealing compared to the risks.

 

[andyc225]

Neither the the repeal if the CAP or CFP would make a significant difference to your economy and should we les the influence we have on the finance industry what's to say the EU wouldn't set itself up to aggressively compete with the City?

I'm just not convinced that the benefits of unilateral withdrawal are all that appealing compared to the risks.

The scrapping of the CAP and CFP would make a world of difference to the lives of those who rely on the local food bank because food prices are too high. By not throwing dead fish into the sea or destroying perfectly good crops we can make inroads toward stopping poverty and hunger in our country. The EU wouldn't be able to compete with the City of London even if it wanted to; financial transaction taxes are undesirable and would be avoided wherever possible, usually through means on bailing out of the jurisdiction. The Euro is a non-optimal currency union and is doomed to failure; maybe not today or tomorrow, but it can't go on forever. Countries as diverse in terms of economic output and lifestyle as Germany and Bulgaria cannot exist with a common interest rate. Countries like Greece and Portugal should never have joined in the first place. These countries and their peoples have been thrown together with no regard for their way of life in pursuit of a nonsensical European dream. The sooner it's binned, the better.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

. The sooner it's binned, the better.

I agree but not with unilateral withdrawal

 

[Parkins left foot]

I agree but not with unilateral withdrawal

Then again if you are a member of a club, which you consider is dysfunctional & the rules are not working you may reasonably agree that to try to change them to function better is the right course to take.

There may well still come a time when you feel that this route will not work and will have to make the decision - 'should I stay or should I go'

 

[Johnny75]

Then again if you are a member of a club, which you consider is dysfunctional & the rules are not working you may reasonably agree that to try to change them to function better is the right course to take.

There may well still come a time when you feel that this route will not work and will have to make the decision - 'should I stay or should I go'

That's where I am PLF. The club isn't run well and needs reform but binning the lot so finance could be more dominant is an idea that would make me vote to stay in a million times. Business needs Europe's free movement as trade agreements with individual countries would stack red tape onto red tape and make accountants and lawyers costs go through the roof. Ask anybody who sells to the Far East or Europe which is easier.

But it does need reform and I am in favour of scaling back governments and binning the Euro.

Andy, you're showing a staggering amount if ignorance attacking the Court of Human Rights as this was set up by the whole of Europe to stop the likes of despots existing and doing their worst. The rulings you may dislike and there should be a robust appeals process but to repeal it would be madness and plunge us into the same state as we had before the Second World War.

 

[andyc225]

That's where I am PLF. The club isn't run well and needs reform but binning the lot so finance could be more dominant is an idea that would make me vote to stay in a million times. Business needs Europe's free movement as trade agreements with individual countries would stack red tape onto red tape and make accountants and lawyers costs go through the roof. Ask anybody who sells to the Far East or Europe which is easier.

But it does need reform and I am in favour of scaling back governments and binning the Euro.

Andy, you're showing a staggering amount if ignorance attacking the Court of Human Rights as this was set up by the whole of Europe to stop the likes of despots existing and doing their worst. The rulings you may dislike and there should be a robust appeals process but to repeal it would be madness and plunge us into the same state as we had before the Second World War.

The ECHR is a body that meddles in the affairs of member states' individual judiciary processes. You're confusing it with the ICC in Den Haag. The ECHR is the court which helps to prevent Britain from deporting foreign terrorists and is making us give prisoners the privilege of voting.

The elephant in the room as far as your first point is concerned is the fact that financial services is Britain's biggest industry; it already is "dominant" as you like to put it in the sense that it has some form of involvement in practically everything you do. I'm not saying we couldn't come to some agreement on the free movement of people; you'd find that if we did leave it'd be lobbied for vociferously by business on the continent. What I am saying is that we could quite happily scrap a number of laws that are making life difficult for British businesses and driving up the cost of food for families.

 

[Doctor Doog]

Are you saying that the UK would do a better job of regulating financial services independently? I don't see much evidence of that.

 

[Premier Quality]

Holland would be better off if they left the EU

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ould-be-better-off-if-they-left-the-euro.html