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[Johnny75]

Take away clear and obvious, mike the ref up so we can hear him as they do in rugby. Get rid of the touchline monitor.
"Wolves 22 has tripped Fulham 10, it's obviously inside the box, is there any reason I cant award the penalty?"
"Checking replays now Mike, The Wolves 22 has got a touch on the ball before the contact with Fulham's 10, its only a nick but enough to overule the penalty Mike, so we are going with no penalty".
Cant see who could be annoyed with that scenario, not Fulham, Wolves, pundits, anyone.

World Rugby, who aren't the greatest organisation in the world got this right. Fuck knows why the FA can't. It's baffling, they don't even need to innovate anything.

 

[Donegal Wolf]

That's the things, why were so many people getting involved? should be only referee & Var man, & also not clear who makes final call.
They have made a complete balls of it, needs to be binned (apart from automated offside) as at the moment way it is working it is not fit for purpose and only be reintroduced once they have set up a correct process & have the laws inline with them.
At the moment they are making stuff up as they go along to try to cover themselves & just making things worse.

 

[jd1981]

Whilst some might laugh at the pilot instruction on clear language use it’s very important. The fuck up around the Liverpool offside was mainly down to poor use of words. Operating to a radio style discipline would help short concise words that have unique meaning.

 

[leedswolf]

Just leave it to the onfield ref to ask video ref for clarification.

Onfield referee, "I am awarding a penalty for a trip. Can you check for any offside or infringement (specified by the onfield ref) in build up play and check to see if there was foul play for me to award the penalty".

The video ref has to find compelling evidence to overturn the onfield ref's decision. If not it goes with the onfield decision.

 

[Stan Hullis]

They have ex-Super League referees etc. "training" them at Stockley Park so they think they are doing the right thing by looking at other sports for help.

I don't think they realise that it is their system that is the problem, not training the people to use it.

 

[fansagainstvar]

A fine example of VAR "working in Europe" last night!

 

[Kenny]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1729827382842810452

 

[Wolftone]

Just leave it to the onfield ref to ask video ref for clarification.

Onfield referee, "I am awarding a penalty for a trip. Can you check for any offside or infringement (specified by the onfield ref) in build up play and check to see if there was foul play for me to award the penalty".

The video ref has to find compelling evidence to overturn the onfield ref's decision. If not it goes with the onfield decision.

Thats basically what we've got now though isn't it?
The problem is that even when there's compelling evidence (Semedo's foot contacting the ball before the man) it's ignored and they go with the onfield decision of their mate on the pitch rather than telling him to reverse his decision.

Currently it's coming across as it's impossible for the onfield ref to be guilty of human error because they're little tin Gods.
The one good thing VAR is highlighting is the refs are very fallible.

 

[Carrotdude]

I’m not sure if is just a weird period at the moment but VAR does seem to be getting actively worse in pretty much every way currently. Obvious offsides taking minutes to be called, constant wrong decisions being admitted to in hindsight

 

[Kenny]

I’m not sure if is just a weird period at the moment but VAR does seem to be getting actively worse in pretty much every way currently. Obvious offsides taking minutes to be called, constant wrong decisions being admitted to in hindsight

We are stuck in a strange situation where the ref's are doubling down on things despite being told to do differently.

You could probably accept the pen v Newcastle if the instructions of Howard Webb were followed through but since then 3 similar incidents in a few weeks and then have gone down the wrong route on all of them. Is Webb saying the right things in public but telling the group to carry on or are they all so fooking arrogant they are doing it there own way..."what you going to do Webby? demote us all to the Championship for a week?"

 

[leedswolf]

Thats basically what we've got now though isn't it?
The problem is that even when there's compelling evidence (Semedo's foot contacting the ball before the man) it's ignored and they go with the onfield decision of their mate on the pitch rather than telling him to reverse his decision.

Currently it's coming across as it's impossible for the onfield ref to be guilty of human error because they're little tin Gods.
The one good thing VAR is highlighting is the refs are very fallible.

No it isn't. The onfield ref is waiting for VAR to confirm or question the decision based on the subjective application of 'clear and obvious'.

What I was suggesting is that the onfield ref makes the call. If he gives the penalty it stands. If the onfield ref requires confirmation from the video ref then he asks for it. None of this default checking, forensic slowing it down, asking for the ref to go to a monitor to review.

 

[Wolftone]

No it isn't. The onfield ref is waiting for VAR to confirm or question the decision based on the subjective application of 'clear and obvious'.

What I was suggesting is that the onfield ref makes the call. If he gives the penalty it stands. If the onfield ref requires confirmation from the video ref then he asks for it. None of this default checking, forensic slowing it down, asking for the ref to go to a monitor to review.

Ok, I see where you're coming from but isn't that similar to what we had before VAR?
Ref makes a call, it cant be overuled. TV replay shows it was a bad call, every pundit, man and dog in the country knows it was the wrong call, so we look for a way (or not) to reduce the number of wrong calls.

 

[leedswolf]

Ok, I see where you're coming from but isn't that similar to what we had before VAR?
Ref makes a call, it cant be overuled. TV replay shows it was a bad call, every pundit, man and dog in the country knows it was the wrong call, so we look for a way (or not) to reduce the number of wrong calls.

The problem is that with the current usage they are muddying the water even more. The decision has to be the onfield refs as far as I'm concerned. Where does it end? Corners, throw-ins, foul throws, etc.

Going with the onfield decision doesn't stop the onfield ref from asking for confirmation though.

There is never going to be a perfect process that relies on human input. If that's what we want then we forget real time football and watch esports.

 

[BillyDee]

I’m not sure if is just a weird period at the moment but VAR does seem to be getting actively worse in pretty much every way currently. Obvious offsides taking minutes to be called, constant wrong decisions being admitted to in hindsight

Maybe the refs hate it so much they are proving it's unworkable to get it abolished...

 

[Carsy]

A fine example of VAR "working in Europe" last night!

FWIW, People would probably engage with you better if you didn’t just pipe up when there’s mistakes made to back up your point.

 

[Deano]

Standing refs down from games is no punishment really, when these incidents are costing teams points and could in turn fuck up their season. The argument always seems to be whether the technology is at fault or the people operating it, but really it doesn't matter as the result is the same. It's not fit for purpose.

 

[Alan]

Maybe the refs hate it so much they are proving it's unworkable to get it abolished...

I genuinely think some of them have this in their minds.

 

[AndyWolves]

I genuinely think some of them have this in their minds.

Some individuals being disingenuous to get the outcome they want? Surely not ;-)

 

[lemonjelly]

Standing refs down from games is no punishment really, when these incidents are costing teams points and could in turn fuck up their season. The argument always seems to be whether the technology is at fault or the people operating it, but really it doesn't matter as the result is the same. It's not fit for purpose.

Just frees them up to do VAR somewhere else in the world doesn't it? or does the stand down include this?

 

[pagey]

In a sport with subjective decisions required, how the hell can having multiple people involved in the decisions be a good idea?