Wolves 2-3 Brighton: Verdict Thread.

[MARKakaJIM]

Bueno's performance in the first half was similar to Semedo's without the lowlights. Constantly too high up the field leaving acres of space in behind. I'm minded to think that's on the management given they were both guilty of it. Trying to overload with a team that can't keep the ball and no-one covering the space. Almost wing backs without the extra centre half, whilst the 3rd midfielder or wide forwards are not filling the space

On the third I can see why he went to the line rather than Gross, but I'd like to see him throw himself at the ball, even if it might be more performative than anything

I think Bueno just loses his bearings a bit on the 3rd. He looks as though he's running across the goal as much as towards Gross, like he thinks the back post is further beyond him and that's where the big space is for Gross to score. The shot ends up cut back inside behind him as he runs across though, doesn't actually miss him by much so like you say if he'd just charged Gross maybe he gets close enough to get something on it, I just don't feel like he thought he was in the right position to have that effect.

Looking at the first I think Semedo causes a lot of the problem, when the ball breaks off the corner Collins gets dragged out towards the right and Semedo is actually between Kilman and Bueno. He's got to sit in at centre half temporarily until he can safely swap back with Collins but instead he just strolls across towards his right back position ignoring all the Brighton players nearby. That leaves Kilman and Bueno 2v3, though neither of them cover themselves in glory there either with the former ball watching and the latter apparently rendered mute.

 

[jd1981]

They can both get the fuck out of our club stealing a fucking wage, no effort jogging back, no jumping no fuck all pair of shit cunts

C’mon, Johnny been ravaged by injuries for 2 years and prior to that was very mr consistent.
Confidence is on the floor currently

 

[PuntsWolf]

Watching the highlights on MotD this morning and Bueno has had a shocker on all 3 goals.

Bueno wasn’t good but blaming him for the first two is crazy. The third he takes up the right position but then for some reason when the pass is made he basically runs to a position he’s not covering the goal at all when he should have been running out to the ball and making himself big.

 

[Johnny75]

Bueno wasn’t good but blaming him for the first two is crazy. The third he takes up the right position but then for some reason when the pass is made he basically runs to a position he’s not covering the goal at all when he should have been running out to the ball and making himself big.

1st - long ball neatly pulled out of the air easily as he's in the wrong position.
2nd - along with Neves and Podence didn't stop Lallana turning. He's facing Lallana whereas the other two are facing their own goal. He should step out and stop the cross.
3rd - fails to go to Trossard and deal with the ball.

He failed to deal with the ball 3 times. He's not totally to blame for the goals. Semedo is also clearly to blame for the first two. But there's a reason our full backs were targeted.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I don't think anyone can seriously argue in good faith that this isn't a clear goalscoring opportunity.

Or that it isn't a ridiculous foul in itself.

 

[Dire Wolf]

I only saw the MOTD highlights last night, but Mitoma looked a quality player.

 

[1986]

Nice to see Connor Ronan getting a run . If they gave substitute appearances to other younger players then he was well entitled to his time on the pitch .
Will be interesting to see what our new Manager will do with the younger players .

 

[Law's Bus]

I don't think anyone can seriously argue in good faith that this isn't a clear goalscoring opportunity.

Oh, it's a completely ridiculous foul, no question and he deserved to go just for the insanity of it.

Is it a clear goalscoring opportunity? That's the bit I'm really not convinced by. He's outside the box, about 13 yards from the goal line and running at full speed when he goes down. The ball is not under control.

So, let's say Semedo doesn't exist here. When would the ball come under control? Probably not for another 5 yards or so, putting him about 8 yards from the goal line and still outside the area. He'd then have to turn inside and try to lift the ball over Sa from a ridiculously tight angle before the covering defenders get there.

Is it a "goalscoring opportunity"? Probably in theory, yes. Is it "clear"? No, not really at all - the xG from that position must be tiny - scoring from that position is very unlikely.

 

[1986]

Biggest problem we had at the time of the sending off was the space both around , and behind the two players .

 

[Tony Towner]

Oh, it's a completely ridiculous foul, no question and he deserved to go just for the insanity of it.

Is it a clear goalscoring opportunity? That's the bit I'm really not convinced by. He's outside the box, about 13 yards from the goal line and running at full speed when he goes down. The ball is not under control.

So, let's say Semedo doesn't exist here. When would the ball come under control? Probably not for another 5 yards or so, putting him about 8 yards from the goal line and still outside the area. He'd then have to turn inside and try to lift the ball over Sa from a ridiculously tight angle before the covering defenders get there.

Is it a "goalscoring opportunity"? Probably in theory, yes. Is it "clear"? No, not really at all - the xG from that position must be tiny - scoring from that position is very unlikely.

Although all of this is correct, it's a clear goalscoring opportunity, there's no wording I'm aware of it about it being a clear good goalscoring opportunity. Therefore it's a red, be it I was surprised at the time

 

[PuntsWolf]

1st - long ball neatly pulled out of the air easily as he's in the wrong position.

That happened but it wasn’t the goal. The first is what Mark says. Semedo goes trotting off creating the overload.
At this point it’s all under control. No one stop the cross, Semedo doing fuck all and then at an absolute push Bueno could be 2 yards inside. But don’t think that influences anything and they still score. If anything even gives Gross the freedom of the box to score the other side instead.

2nd - along with Neves and Podence didn't stop Lallana turning. He's facing Lallana whereas the other two are facing their own goal. He should step out and stop the cross.

My issues here are Neves, Podence and Semedo. Bueno is too busy thinking about the pass out wide in behind, which at first is the right thing to do but then the more Lallana carries it that is more of an issue.

Again here is fine. But once he gets to here..

He needs to forget about the other man and go to it but it’s probably a little too late. Again though, far more people ahead in the Blame game (can we bring it back!?).

3rd - fails to go to Trossard and deal with the ball.

He’d be wrong to to do this. But he should have gone to Gross after the pass Rather than run laterally. Like Mark said he much have lost his bearings.

He’s a young kid who shouldn’t really be starting at this level but he’s still been head and shoulders above the other two on the right who probably earn more between them in a week than he does in a year.

 

[AndyWolves]

Although all of this is correct, it's a clear goalscoring opportunity, there's no wording I'm aware of it about it being a clear good goalscoring opportunity. Therefore it's a red, be it I was surprised at the time

It also makes semedos decision the atrocious one that it was. Still half the game to play and absolutely no guarantee the Brighton player scores there.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Oh, it's a completely ridiculous foul, no question and he deserved to go just for the insanity of it.

Is it a clear goalscoring opportunity? That's the bit I'm really not convinced by. He's outside the box, about 13 yards from the goal line and running at full speed when he goes down. The ball is not under control.

So, let's say Semedo doesn't exist here. When would the ball come under control? Probably not for another 5 yards or so, putting him about 8 yards from the goal line and still outside the area. He'd then have to turn inside and try to lift the ball over Sa from a ridiculously tight angle before the covering defenders get there.

Is it a "goalscoring opportunity"? Probably in theory, yes. Is it "clear"? No, not really at all - the xG from that position must be tiny - scoring from that position is very unlikely.

He's not heading towards the touchline though, he's already cutting inside...

And he'd clearly have got to the ball before Sa. He's in on goal.

 

[AndyWolves]

And as an aside, the three red cards we've had this season have all been really poor decisions made by our players.

Our decision making in general has been poor, hopefully JL can give the players confidence by having a plan

 

[Johnny75]

That happened but it wasn’t the goal. The first is what Mark says. Semedo goes trotting off creating the overload.View attachment 6293
At this point it’s all under control. No one stop the cross, Semedo doing fuck all and then at an absolute push Bueno could be 2 yards inside. But don’t think that influences anything and they still score. If anything even gives Gross the freedom of the box to score the other side instead.

My issues here are Neves, Podence and Semedo. Bueno is too busy thinking about the pass out wide in behind, which at first is the right thing to do but then the more Lallana carries it that is more of an issue.
View attachment 6295
Again here is fine. But once he gets to here..
View attachment 6296
He needs to forget about the other man and go to it but it’s probably a little too late. Again though, far more people ahead in the Blame game (can we bring it back!?).

He’d be wrong to to do this. But he should have gone to Gross after the pass Rather than run laterally. Like Mark said he much have lost his bearings.

He’s a young kid who shouldn’t really be starting at this level but he’s still been head and shoulders above the other two on the right who probably earn more between them in a week than he does in a year.

Sorry, I meant Gross.

Always deal with the immediate danger first if you can, that's just good coaching and tactics.

Deals with that then Gross doesn't have the time he does.

On the second goal, I agree with your first part but the moment Lallana turns Bueno should be on top of him. Let Podence chase back and cover the pass. Bueno has the vision and momentum to stop that but he didn't. It's those decisions that make top players like good.

I've been a cheerleader for Bueno for a long time now and think he'll be a good player under better management. He's not as good as RAN in terms of ability yet but certainly better in terms of attitude.

I did say in my original post that Bueno's not totally to blame but he certainly has a good share of it.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

This quote from JL makes me think things could go either way for a lot of the squad...

“You have to teach the players, structure the way they play through sessions so they understand the problems that can arise and what the solutions are. Players learn through repetition and spontaneous discovery but while you try to mechanise some movements it’s a fine line. If you go too far, you kill creativity. A player need the tools, but he has to be himself: he’s not a PlayStation player.”

Sounds like he expects them to be able to do some thinking for themselves. In some cases a bit more structure might see their decision making improve on the bits where they need to fill in the gaps but with others I think they'll very much be found wanting in that respect.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

That happened but it wasn’t the goal. The first is what Mark says. Semedo goes trotting off creating the overload.View attachment 6293
At this point it’s all under control. No one stop the cross, Semedo doing fuck all and then at an absolute push Bueno could be 2 yards inside. But don’t think that influences anything and they still score. If anything even gives Gross the freedom of the box to score the other side instead.

My issues here are Neves, Podence and Semedo. Bueno is too busy thinking about the pass out wide in behind, which at first is the right thing to do but then the more Lallana carries it that is more of an issue.
View attachment 6295
Again here is fine. But once he gets to here..
View attachment 6296
He needs to forget about the other man and go to it but it’s probably a little too late. Again though, far more people ahead in the Blame game (can we bring it back!?).

He’d be wrong to to do this. But he should have gone to Gross after the pass Rather than run laterally. Like Mark said he much have lost his bearings.

He’s a young kid who shouldn’t really be starting at this level but he’s still been head and shoulders above the other two on the right who probably earn more between them in a week than he does in a year.

Neves gets beat far too easily by Lallana on the 2nd goal, something I think he's often guilty of when he steps out to press. Semedo is marking like he's had a few pints though, when Lallana first feints to cross he's slow to react to Mitoma's run that he ends up running back into space ahead of him once he's abandoned it and recreating the gap for Mitoma to get the run on him when the cross does come in.

 

[sycophantia]

They can both get the fuck out of our club stealing a fucking wage, no effort jogging back, no jumping no fuck all pair of shit cunts

I can forgive these type of comments on a matchday thread, everyone's pumped up and emotions running high, but a day later when we've all had chance to reflect its fucking ridiculous, childish, as entitled as you can get.
Defensively we're all over the place atm, but people seem to be forgetting that for the first 6-8 games of the season we had one of the best defences in the league. Don't get me wrong, JL has a lot of work to do, both on the training ground and from a confidence point of view but fuck me some people need to take a chill pill.

 

[leedswolf]

Although all of this is correct, it's a clear goalscoring opportunity, there's no wording I'm aware of it about it being a clear good goalscoring opportunity. Therefore it's a red, be it I was surprised at the time

...denying a goal or obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent whose overall movement is towards the offender's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick...

 

[Tony Towner]

...denying a goal or obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent whose overall movement is towards the offender's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick...

Yes, but it's the strength of the goal scoring opportunity part which is vague, hence it being a red. He probably has a 1 on 1 on an angle 6 yards or so out with Sa presumably coming to narrow it. My money would be on the keeper, but the goalscoring opportunity still exists so that's irrelevant. That final touch deflecting it towards goal is the killer and that bit which wasn't obvious to me at the ground