Wolves 1-1 Southampton Verdict Thread

[AndyWolves]

Yesterday was his first start (and first 90 mins) in about two months.

To be fair to him he did try to run I'm behind a few times which is an improvement

 

[Carrotdude]

I don't see us moving forwards with four at the back from the outset, but hopefully the last 20 or so last night will show that in the event of us pushing for a goal, we can sacrifice one of the three and put an extra body in the final third.

Really good point this actually, would be much more benficial in a game where we’re chasing a goal to go to 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2 than just bringing Traore or whoever on as a like for like.

 

[Carrotdude]

To be fair to him he did try to run I'm behind a few times which is an improvement

Thought he looked a lot more dangerous in the last half an hour or so, was a bit quicker to get moving with the ball and broke free a couple of times.

 

[prawnking]

Adama is such a conspicuous player I feel often he gets over-praise when he has a decent game and also scapegoated a bit when he's under-par.

I noticed last night he seemed to drift into central areas when we were out of possession, but then reverted to going wide again and being boxed in by two or three defenders when he had the ball. It's not hard to predict how teams try and deal with him, I'd like us to be ahead of that as a team and use it as an advantage. We/he are just playing into the way teams defend against him whenever he plays.

As I've said before, I still think his shoulder is an issue and suspect we should have opted for surgery during the close season

 

[pacamac]

Would you have binned Jimenez off for missing a sitter at West Ham 3 games in, at the start of 2018/19? Can't have passengers after all.

No cuz Raul wasn't a 19 year old kid with hardly any 1st team football under his belt and it was clear to anyone who understood the game despite him missing a sitter his work rate and getting in positions and dragging defenders out as well as his off the ball work were all spot on! The only thing that took Jimenez a little time was the actual scoring, ironically its the other parts of the game he seems to have been lacking lately but sure its just a short blip.

Raul was never a passenger even in those early run of games where he didn't score was clear to anyone who understands football he was a great asset to the team.

I didn't say bin RAN off either I'm sure he'll be a really good prospect but shoving him in the first team when he's clearly not ready (based on one game where Palace gave him that much space even I'd have looked a world class LWB) will do him more harm than good and the team/results certainly more harm.

 

[pacamac]

The U23s aren't going to teach a first team squad player anything. They are glorifed none contact kick abouts except for the Papa Johns

Worked for Kilman, regardless Wolves aim in the league has to be to put out the best side to win games not to help progress his career (shame didn't stay in the league cup that would have been ideal for players like him)

 

[pacamac]

That's fine, but maybe tell Nuno! We were supposed to strengthen over the summer, and most of our signings are even less experienced than RAN. We can't exactly loan out a loanee either

By the time Otto's back then the next window he won't be a loanee will he?

But we made one signing who plays that direct position and who is far more experienced and (at the moment) better in Marcal.

 

[pacamac]

On the whole he was, don't listen to Pacamac he's like a scarecrow masturbating, he's just clutching at straws

Worst player on the pitch last two games.

He's 19 he's not ready, we shouldn't persist with it and do him more harm than good just because everyone's desperate to claim we've found a new wonder kid that actually adds to the team straight away.

 

[BGreenWolf]

RAN has shown way more about him in a Wolves shirt than Marcal has.

 

[pacamac]

RAN has shown way more about him in a Wolves shirt than Marcal has.

Debateable he's had one game where he was made to look good and two where he's been the weakest player on the pitch but anyway didn't know we can only count it if they've done it in a Wolves shirt?

Marcal is easily the consistent and safe choice (while Otto's out)

 

[pacamac]

Adama is such a conspicuous player I feel often he gets over-praise when he has a decent game and also scapegoated a bit when he's under-par.

This is true, wider media who clearly only watched Wolves highlights last season don't help as such with the constant over hype.

Thought Adama did ok yesterday nothing special but doesn't deserve the roasting I've seen him getting from some.

 

[Tony Towner]

Worked for Kilman, regardless Wolves aim in the league has to be to put out the best side to win games not to help progress his career (shame didn't stay in the league cup that would have been ideal for players like him)

Not really. He hasn't played for the U23s since he got promoted to the first team squad. Even though that meant he played a handful of games in total last season

 

[BGreenWolf]

Marcal is 32, and not playing at his best position. I'd much rather invest the time in blooding RAN and have Marcal as backup, even if it doesn't necessarily benefit the performances right now.

This desire to hide away a promising youngster as second fiddle (and presumably third fiddle when Jonny comes back) is frankly baffling to me, and I don't think his performances in the last two games even slightly merit it (I don't think he was our worst player in either game, to be honest).

 

[YoungWolf]

This is true, wider media who clearly only watched Wolves highlights last season don't help as such with the constant over hype.

Thought Adama did ok yesterday nothing special but doesn't deserve the roasting I've seen him getting from some.

He was certainly better towards the end of the game when he had Podence inside of him I felt.

I thought he was quite good second half and actually threw himself about a bit more than usual. Much better when he's going into space as we all know too.

 

[pacamac]

Not really. He hasn't played for the U23s since he got promoted to the first team squad. Even though that meant he played a handful of games in total last season

So the fact that at the moment he's easily a first team starter and quickly establishing himself in the first team shows that previously playing in the under 23s doesn't work? Confused.

I'm talking when he originally played for the under 23s not last season when he was in that transition type period.

 

[pacamac]

Marcal is 32, and not playing at his best position. I'd much rather invest the time in blooding RAN and have Marcal as backup, even if it doesn't necessarily benefit the performances right now.

This desire to hide away a promising youngster as second fiddle (and presumably third fiddle when Jonny comes back) is frankly baffling to me, and I don't think his performances in the last two games even slightly merit it (I don't think he was our worst player in either game, to be honest).

This isn't the 1990's you don't 'blood' them in by throwing them in the deep end!

Was Neto 'blooded in' that way?
How about Podence?
Kilman?

Getting him game time in the under 23s, having him on the bench, giving him minutes off the bench where possible and starting the cup potentially is hardly hiding him away but for Premier League games like the one on Sunday he shouldn't be starting.

By you're logic Silva should start over Jimenez.

 

[BGreenWolf]

So the fact that at the moment he's easily a first team starter and quickly establishing himself in the first team shows that previously playing in the under 23s doesn't work?

He stopped playing in the under 23s long before he established himself in the first team. He last played in PL2 a year before he started getting significant first-team game time.

Was Neto 'blooded in' that way?
How about Podence?
Kilman?

Neto, Podence and Kilman all spent time in and around the first team setup until Nuno felt they were ready. They were not shuttled off to the U23s or off on loan. The difference here is that Nuno clearly feels that RAN is ready at an earlier stage.

 

[AndyWolves]

RAN is too good for the u23s and would learn nothing. He would more than likely go back to France at the end of his loan and pop up at a giant club in a few years.

He may be raw, but it's obvious he's got oodles of potential , way beyond what Vinagre would show

 

[pacamac]

He stopped playing in the under 23s long before he established himself in the first team. He last played in PL2 a year before he started getting significant first-team game time.

Neto, Podence and Kilman all spent time in and around the first team setup until Nuno felt they were ready. They were not shuttled off to the U23s or off on loan. The difference here is that Nuno clearly feels that RAN is ready at an earlier stage.

But he played for the under 23s prior to that right? Or are you people that simplistic you think its only part of the players progress if its what he does immediately prior to getting in the first team regularly.

Yes and thats exactly what RAN needs to do spend time around the first team similar to Neto Podence and Kilman but the major difference is this season is that we're out of the league cup and have no easy Europa games to use. Therefore that approach needs slightly adapting and as well as keeping players like RAN around the first team/bench occasion appearances they also need to be given minutes ie in the under 23s or possibly loan.

No the difference is Jonny is out and Marcel got injured so rather than feeling he was ready Nuno was forced into playing him. He then had one decent game so obviously you don't drop him, especially when the other option at the time was a non fully fit Marcal but now we've seen that they need to take that step back to the original plan with RAN.

 

[prawnking]

I know what you're getting at pacamac, for me though I'm happy to trust Nuno on this unless we hit a horror run of dropping points due to these inexperienced players. Then steadying the ship with the likes of Marcal is an option to take them out of the firing line.

I also think with our paucity of goals RAN is a better offensive option than Marcal or Saiss in terms of team balance.