Trump

[Sniffer]

When did being a 2nd lady become a thing. Don’t think I’ve ever heard of it until the last couple of days and now she’s smack bang in the middle of a diplomatic episode.

 

[prawnking]

Not sure what you're laughing at PK. Trump is following a very similar path to Putin.

Really, I hadn't noticed. Glad all you tough guy street fighting revolutionaries are here to keep me up to date on world affairs.

He's been in power for 10 weeks FFS.

We all know what his goal is, he'd fucking love to be a dictator, but he's not there yet. Firstly you have to try to stop that politically, don't you??

It astounds me that the three of you have effectively given up on democracy in less than three months.

 

[Dire Wolf]

I'm fully aware of that. You don't have to convince me the Trump administration are a bunch of cunts, that's not the discussion.

I'm saying try the political route first, communities, counter-arguments, political leaders, organise an alternative vision for your great nation. There are enough non-MAGA Americans to make it a strong opposition.

What I'm hearing as an alternative, is...what? Non-MAGAs take the government down from the streets...or something??

Have you never heard of political protest as part of democratic free speech? There are dozens of examples of mass political protest, people on the streets, enacting change. YOU chose to interpret that as me saying violent overthrow of the regime is the only choice. And you call my arguments shallow, you utter clown.

However, the response of this administration is unlikely to be peaceful and non-violent if there are mass protests. So how any protest movement reacts to the likely violent persecution will be what determines the outcome. It will either be cowed and Trump & the oligarchs win and democracy loses, or there could well be a lot more violence in the future of the USA.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Really, I hadn't noticed. Glad all you tough guy street fighting revolutionaries are here to keep me up to date on world affairs.

He's been in power for 10 weeks FFS.

We all know what his goal is, he'd fucking love to be a dictator, but he's not there yet. Firstly you have to try to stop that politically, don't you??

It astounds me that the three of you have effectively given up on democracy in less than three months.

I lost faith in democracy when he was elected again. Once was bad enough, but twice!?

Dictators arrest people without due cause, dictators erase History, dictators attempt land grabs, he's done/doing all that within 10 weeks - FFS.

 

[prawnking]

Have you never heard of political protest as part of democratic free speech? There are dozens of examples of mass political protest, people on the streets, enacting change. YOU chose to interpret that as me saying violent overthrow of the regime is the only choice. And you call my arguments shallow, you utter clown.

You weren't talking about political protest as part of democratic free speech (which of course I fully agree with), you bypassed both the law and the official political opposition and leapt straight to people on the street, violent conflict and eventually overcoming and overpowering the democratically elected government

there will be a fightback, probably not through the courts or the Democrats, but from people on the streets saying enough is enough.

How those protests are dealt with by the Administration (which I feel sure will be vicious and violent), will go one of 2 ways. People will be cowed into submission and acceptance, and the Fascists will have won, or people will fight back stronger and in greater numbers. And therein hope lies.

And you guys get all shitty when your political position is ridiculed as that of juvenile fantasists. Jesus Christ. To paraphrase the fella from Succession, you're not serious people.

 

[prawnking]

I lost faith in democracy when he was elected again. Once was bad enough, but twice!?

You can't only have faith in democracy when your side (or an acceptable one) wins

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

You can't only have faith in democracy when your side (or an acceptable one) wins

Why?

I've seen people vote against their own best interests a number of times now.

 

[prawnking]

Why?

I've seen people vote against their own best interests a number of times now.

But it's their fucking vote, your judgement and opinion of 'their best interests' is irrelevant FFS

 

[Dire Wolf]

You weren't talking about political protest as part of democratic free speech (which of course I fully agree with), you bypassed both the law and the official political opposition and leapt straight to people on the street, violent conflict and eventually overcoming and overpowering the democratically elected government



And you guys get all shitty when your political position is ridiculed as that of juvenile fantasists. Jesus Christ. To paraphrase the fella from Succession, you're not serious people.

Yes I was! Mass protest was exactly what I was talking about. Where do I reference armed insurrection?

I 'bypassed the law' because in 10 weeks Trump has ridden roughshod over Supreme Court Judges, totally ignored legalities with impunity, dismantled all and any legal routes to challenge him. The Democratic Party post-Biden has been virtually castrated as an opposition and is outnumbered in both chambers.

So tell me in your wisdom, what democratic or legal route do you advocate that has a chance to reverse this before an election in 4 years, which may (or more likely) may not happen?

 

[AndyWolves]

Whilst political donations (bribes) are a thing i don't think our current version of democracy works.

 

[prawnking]

Yes I was! Mass protest was what I was taking about. Where do I reference armed insurrection?

I didn't say you did? I said you're talking about bypassing normal political/legal channels (which includes peaceful protest) and going straight for confrontation on the streets to overthrow a government the people voted in late last year.

Your post was two sentences long and contained the word 'fight' twice and 'violent' once. You're not talking about standing on corners with a few placards.

If we're all horrified that Trump is desperate to undo so much of the US's reputation, alliances and democratic system, and if we would rather a decent version of democracy in the US (and the rest of the world) rather than dictatorship, oligarchy, theocracy or worse, shouldn't the move be to defend and legitimise democracy, voting, political discourse, the power of community action, and show that it has value, rather than give up after 3 months and sink to the level of insurrection?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

But it's their fucking vote, your judgement and opinion of 'their best interests' is irrelevant FFS

Yeah? Didn't say it wasn't?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

The way you're talking here PK (the aggression) reminds me of when you were telling us how wrong we were for thinking Israel were being OTT.

 

[prawnking]

The way you're talking here PK (the aggression) reminds me of when you were telling us how wrong we were for thinking Israel were being OTT

Aggressive

You're deflecting cos you have nothing of substance to add

 

[prawnking]

Yeah? Didn't say it wasn't?

It's their vote so who on earth are you to pontificate about what other peoples best interests are?

Last bite from me

 

[Dire Wolf]

I didn't say you did? I said you're talking about bypassing normal political/legal channels (which includes peaceful protest) and going straight for confrontation on the streets to overthrow a government the people voted in late last year.

Your post was two sentences long and contained the word 'fight' twice and 'violent' once. You're not talking about standing on corners with a few placards.

If we're all horrified that Trump is desperate to undo so much of the US's reputation, alliances and democratic system, and if we would rather a decent version of democracy in the US (and the rest of the world) rather than dictatorship, oligarchy, theocracy or worse, shouldn't the move be to defend and legitimise democracy, voting, political discourse, the power of community action, and show that it has value, rather than give up after 3 months and sink to the level of insurrection?

Are you fucking dense? Don't bother answering that, I think the proof is there in your posts. You do know that when opposing something you're fighting against it? That when people opposed apartheid for instance, demonstrations against it were part of the 'fight against apartheid'. The violence I referenced was, valid on current evidence, the supposition that any opposition through mass protest was highly likely to met with a violent response from the Trump regime. And the question I posed was whether that would quell the protests or lead to more protests as a response.

If you can't understand that point, but want instead to spin it to fit your pre-determined opinion, knock yourself out genius.

 

[Dire Wolf]

Aggressive

You're deflecting cos you have nothing of substance to add

Quality. Hello pot meet kettle.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

It's their vote so who on earth are you to pontificate about what other peoples best interests are?

Last bite from me

Right, so I can't have an opinion on whether Brexit, voting in Johnson and Trump twice was in the best interests of the people who voted for it?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Aggressive

You're deflecting cos you have nothing of substance to add

Yes you've aggressively told me that your opinion is that I can't I have an opinion.

 

[Alan]

The thing with this administration is that if you’re in a Mexican standoff with them and put down your gun, they’re not putting down theirs, they’re picking up yours.

Now they have two and you have none. And you ain’t voting from the jail or grave they send you to.