The Rugby Thread

[Paddingtonwolf]

Stephen Jones in Sunday Times has written one of the most unbelievably bitter articles I've ever read about last night's game.

Reached third column before there was any mention of an England grand slam. Only 3 English players in his team of the tournament too. Quite amazing that he is still employed.

I used to think a lot of Stephen Jones but he has really become very one-eyed.

If I was picking a team of the tournament now I think Cole, Billy Vunipola, Itoje, Farrell, Brown and Nowell would have good chances of being in. Probably Marler and Hartley too. Toughest is number 8 - Vunipola vs Faletau is still a very close thing but I would favour the England player because they have won the tournament.

The only Welsh players that I would DEFINITELY have in at the moment would be George North and Jamie Roberts. Maybe Alun Wynn Jones alongside Itoje, and one of the back row to complement Vunipola.

I would definitely be wanting Hogg and Liam Williams challenging Brown but you still have to favour the tournament winners.

 

[Tredman]

I used to think a lot of Stephen Jones but he has really become very one-eyed.

If I was picking a team of the tournament now I think Cole, Billy Vunipola, Itoje, Farrell, Brown and Nowell would have good chances of being in. Probably Marler and Hartley too. Toughest is number 8 - Vunipola vs Faletau is still a very close thing but I would favour the England player because they have won the tournament.

The only Welsh players that I would DEFINITELY have in at the moment would be George North and Jamie Roberts. Maybe Alun Wynn Jones alongside Itoje, and one of the back row to complement Vunipola.

I would definitely be wanting Hogg and Liam Williams challenging Brown but you still have to favour the tournament winners.

Used to like him now, but it's getting to the point that it's not worth reading about rugby in the times, it's a real shame as I love reading the paper on a Sunday morning.

I wouldn't have brown in the England squad, let alone any combined team. Stuart Barnes is saying today England should play Watson at full back. Would be a very attacking team with him, Nowell and may/Ashton/Wade in a back 3.

Surprised you haven't got warburton in from Wales, he'd be a definite for me, if he's fit and in form.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

He would probably be my choice of the Welsh back row to go next to Vunipola.

 

[jd1981]

Has anyone got a link to this article?
Is Stephen Jones Welsh by any chance?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Extremely. Used to be considered very knowledgeable but for some reason, as Wales have returned to being a very competitive side against England he has allowed his bias to shine through more strongly. I have no idea why. It isn't that difficult to commend England when they have done well. They are worthy grand slam winners and should be praised as such. Jones' rhetoric does nothing to dispel the view of many English rugby followers that Welsh rugby fans can be intolerable when their team is decent. I try and buck the trend. I also rather enjoy the bantz with you English rugby types. And that is the way it should be.

I doubt you will get a link to the article easily. Times internet access is Murdoch-powered pay-per-view bollocks.

 

[Tredman]

What gets me is that he rants on and on that England should do x, y or z and then when they do it rants on and on and that it was clearly never going to work.

I pointed this out to him on Twitter once, after Josephs had had a poor game and he wanted him dropped. He called me a twat and blocked me!

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

One thing that England absolutely must do if Eddie Jones is going to turn them back into a world force is sort the bloody discipline out. So many stupid penalties given away. If they can tidy that up then I see no reason why they can't challenge for the Six Nations title every year and regularly beat Australia and South Africa. New Zealand might be a slightly more difficult ask. And that is where England can stand out from Wales. Wales still have regular outings where we run the big boys close but we rarely see out the win against the Southern Hemisphere. England can beat them. Wales should be able to, but have so far failed to do so.

 

[Dinowolf]

Its amazing how Mike Brown attracts the comments he does. He seems to be like marmite.

Personally, I think he has played well this 6N and feel he has rarely let England down. Yes, there are some things he could have done better but his experience, versatility, reading of the game and fitness have been invaluable in us winning the Grand Slam.

He's over 30 yrs old now so naturally there will be talk of a successor at FB for England with Watson being many peoples favourite because of his good tackling and fearless approach to the high ball. He's also very quick, which is why he plays on the wing at the moment, and while I can think of a couple of speed merchants who could replace him, neither of them are known for their tackling/defensive capability. For me Ashton is too old at 29, and I think Yarde or esp. Wade would be better to teach defensive work to make them more viable for international rugby.

 

[Bit on the shaggies]

Yeah I don't get the negative comments on Brown either. I suppose it's because, by his high standards, he's not had a great tournament, but he hasn't been poor, not by a long shot.

I also think a lot of people are getting over excited about our 'bright future' that is getting a lot of press hype at the moment. We aren't there yet (and there's plenty of recent history that suggests we are still quite far from it) but I get the sense that everybody's all too willing to let Eddie swing the axe and usher in our new reign as All-Conquering-World-Beaters before really thinking about the consequences of breaking up a winning team.

There's a few old heads in this team that should be being praised at the moment, rather than being lined up for replacement.

 

[Tredman]

My issue with Brown is that there is almost no end product to anythign he does, barring the very occasioanl try he scores.

His best quality is beating the first man, but far too often he does this with head down, gets isolated and england end up giving a penalty away. His passing is poor - he butchered a try scoring pass in the last game. He looks good, because of the line breaks, but that's it. Jason Robinson could do the same (but much better), but was always open to a pass or lay off.

 

[Bit on the shaggies]

Stephen Jones in Sunday Times has written one of the most unbelievably bitter articles I've ever read about last night's game.

Reached third column before there was any mention of an England grand slam. Only 3 English players in his team of the tournament too. Quite amazing that he is still employed.

Guscott's team of the tournament has only three England players too.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Alot of Irish in there considering they only won two matches.

 

[Johnny75]

Guscott's team of the tournament has only three England players too.

Guscott's a twat and always has been. The Dean Saunders of rugby commentary.

 

[Dinowolf]

Before the tournament Guscott forecast England would finish fourth. Before the Wales game he forecast a close game with England losing by a few points.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

He was way out on one, and pretty close on the other, tbf!

 

[Johnny75]

He was way out on one, and pretty close on the other, tbf!

So what you're saying is he has a 0% success rate.

 

[Dinowolf]

Guscott admits that his expectations for England were quite low for this 6N.

"England hugely exceeded my expectations. I thought they might well go backwards after finishing second four years in a row in the tournament, but Jones has inspired the team with his new messages and the experience he has brought from around the world of rugby."

As a former England player I would have expected him to have had better info. on England matters than he showed. Whilst he is entitled to his opinion, his views were disappointing and smacked of lazy journalism.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

So what you're saying is he has a 0% success rate.

I am not really saying anything particularly. Read what you like into it.

 

[Johnny75]

Guscott admits that his expectations for England were quite low for this 6N.

"England hugely exceeded my expectations. I thought they might well go backwards after finishing second four years in a row in the tournament, but Jones has inspired the team with his new messages and the experience he has brought from around the world of rugby."

As a former England player I would have expected him to have had better info. on England matters than he showed. Whilst he is entitled to his opinion, his views were disappointing and smacked of lazy journalism.

I come back to the Dean Saunders comparison, capped 75 times but knows less about football than your average fan. I'm never struck by the 'ex-international must know something' argument. They just have to be good. I listened to Wilkinson talk and to me he sounded knowledgeable until I heard Woodward analyse the same game and his insight and knowledge made poor Jonny look a complete amateur, but then I'd expect that as he's a world class coach. Guscott is an embarrassment compared to those two.

 

[Dinowolf]

I come back to the Dean Saunders comparison, capped 75 times but knows less about football than your average fan. I'm never struck by the 'ex-international must know something' argument. They just have to be good. I listened to Wilkinson talk and to me he sounded knowledgeable until I heard Woodward analyse the same game and his insight and knowledge made poor Jonny look a complete amateur, but then I'd expect that as he's a world class coach. Guscott is an embarrassment compared to those two.

It would have been nice if you had quoted the whole sentence and not just selected a few words of it thus changing the syntax.

However, the result of Guscott's wayward forecasts means I no longer have faith in anything he forecasts nor his opinions as I feel he doesn't do his homework before publishing.