The NFL Thread

[Alan]

Rough quote from Pats' official involved in Spygate: "Nothing happens in this team without Belichik's say so".

 

[Johnny75]

We were the 'Aints for so long. Those were dark times.

Indeed, you could say we even cheated our Super Bowl win with 'Bountygate'. That's not the chocolate covered coconut confectionary item.

 

[Alan]

Ugh. I hadn't thought about that.

 

[Toon Wolf]

http://deadspin.com/report-nfl-was-aware-of-patriots-deflation-allegations-1680914291

Well what do you know, the Patriots cheating was going on long before the AFC Championship game. Colour me shocked. Not. If Goodell does little or nothing about this the integrity of the NFL is going to be in tatters. Belichick needs a minimum of 1 year suspension. As it's his 2nd offence (that he's been caught for at least, you can guarantee there are other things he hasn't been caught for) he should face a 3 year ban from the game, similar to any Olympic athlete caught cheating. Won't be anything like that though, Goodell hasn't got the balls, deflated or otherwise. What balls he does have are being firmly grasped by Robert Kraft.

 

[Toon Wolf]

I love that Seahawks CB Richard Sherman has called out the relationship between NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell and Cheatriots owner Robert Kraft as a 'conflict of interest'. It's about time this came under some scrutiny. There is something deeply fishy about Kraft and the Cheatriots that goes beyond ordinary levels of success. Whilst I don't dispute that deflate-gate had little impact on the outcome of this particular game, a thorough investigation of EVERYTHING that organisation does from top to bottom needs to be carried out.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

What is the relationship, may I ask? I am intrigued and genuinely don't know, so any info would be much appreciated.

 

[Alan]

Kraft is a member of the NFL's officiating committee.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Hang on, the owner of a franchise has significant influence over choice of officials and officiating decisions, and the commissioner thinks that is fine? Really?

That stinks like last week's fish.

 

[Alan]

He and Goodell are so close that sources have said that he's referred to sometimes as the "Assistant Commissioner".

Make no bones about it, you won't find many more powerful figures in sport than Robert Kraft.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

So basically it really isn't too much of a jump from that to suggest that Pats games could well be completely bent.

Saddening.

 

[Alan]

I'm not going that far as it would ruin the game for me, but... consider this:

In 1994, Orthwein offered Kraft $75 million to buy out the remainder of the team's lease at the Foxboro Stadium, which, if Kraft agreed, would free Orthwein to move the Patriots to St. Louis. However, Kraft rejected the offer and made a counter-bid—a then NFL-record $175 million for the outright purchase of the Patriots (a surprising move in that the Patriots were, at the time, among the least valuable franchises in the NFL), an offer Orthwein accepted.

The Patriots appeared in Super Bowl XX under their original owners, the Sullivans. Yet, this was one of only six playoff appearances in 33 years. However, since Kraft bought the team, they have made the playoffs 15 times in 20 years. They have also appeared in more playoff games (27) than in the team's first 34 seasons combined (10). The team won AFC East titles in 1996, 1997, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014; they represented the AFC in the Super Bowl in 1996 (lost), 2001 (won) 2003 (won) 2004 (won) 2007 (lost) 2011 (lost) and 2014 (TBD).

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

What were the Pats realistically worth back then? They were a pretty rank average outfit back then.

 

[Toon Wolf]

Let's not forget that the current pay deal with the officials was negotiated by Kraft. They were on strike and replacement officials were being used, Kraft was the one who proposed the deal that brought the regular officials back. Since then, mysteriously, the Cheatriots have benefitted from many, many baffling decisions and rule changes. Go figure...

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

It really sounds very dodgy indeed.

 

[Alan]

What were the Pats realistically worth back then? They were a pretty rank average outfit back then.

Probably about the $75m that Orthwein orignally offered. And they weren't just average, they were bad. Really bad (SB XX appearance aside).

For reference, the franchise is now worth $1.4 billion.

 

[Toon Wolf]

Ask yourself this question: in a sport that prides itself on parity, and where so called dynasties recycle generally after about 5-6 years, how is it that the Patriots have remained at the top for 15 years? It's not a coincidence, and it's not simply a result of a good coach and QB combination. Heck, Joe Montana, arguably the best QB to ever play the game, couldn't keep the 49ers at the top for much more than a few seasons. It is more than a little suspicious, especially given that Belichick was no great shakes in his 1st head coaching job and Brady was at best average throughout his college career, which is why he was a 6th round draft pick.

 

[Alan]

I see what you're saying but I think you're totally overblowing it. A great owner and great GM can sustain success for a long time.

Pete Carroll was pretty poor during his first go around in the NFL but look what he's done in Seattle. See also Richard Sherman, who was average at best in college and a 5th round pick but is now the undisputed top CB in the league.

Success doesn't automatically equal cheating.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Elway and the Broncos was about a six year cycle.

Theismann / Riggins Redskins about the same.

I think you are right.

 

[Deano]

I think/hope there's not been a culture of cheating by the Patriots, however I definitely think there's enough evidence against them to warrant investigating it.

 

[Toon Wolf]

I see what you're saying but I think you're totally overblowing it. A great owner and great GM can sustain success for a long time.

Pete Carroll was pretty poor during his first go around in the NFL but look what he's done in Seattle. See also Richard Sherman, who was average at best in college and a 5th round pick but is now the undisputed top CB in the league.

Success doesn't automatically equal cheating.

You're right success doesn't automatically equal cheating, but given that this is the 2nd offence that we know of by the Cheatriots, you have to seriously consider what they may have tried and got away with that may well have helped them to a previously unattainable greatness.

Overblowing it or not, the Patriots need a definite * next to their achievements, IMO.