The NFL Thread

[Tony Towner]

Flores is the shock

 

[Alan]

Said it to some friends this morning; the Tua/Watson situation was so diabolically mishandled by the ownership there that for them to do something so stupid really shouldn't be a surprise.

Flores deserved another year.

 

[Johnny75]

I thought Flores did well with what he had.

 

[Tony Towner]

Put my Wild Card Round 6 fold on
All the home teams except the 49ers

 

[darlowolf64]

And... Nagy and pace are gone...

I was just coming on here to complain that Chicago hadn't reacted while Vikings and Dolphins had... Happy to not have to bitch!

 

[Alan]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Nagy will end up as the OC at Alabama if Bill O'Brien gets one of the other vacancies (Jacksonville have already said they'll be interviewing him).

Saban loves to rehab ex-NFL coaches.

 

[Dennisons Wrong Foot]

Texans do things differently and wait until Thursday afternoon to fire their HC.

No idea why they did it - what more could they have hoped for this season?

Also that leaves exactly one black Head Coach (Tomlin) in the whole NFL.

edit - suggestions of Brian Flores to get the job.

 

[Tony Towner]

Texans do things differently and wait until Thursday afternoon to fire their HC.

No idea why they did it - what more could they have hoped for this season?

Also that leaves exactly one black Head Coach (Tomlin) in the whole NFL.

edit - suggestions of Brian Flores to get the job.

It'll be someone with Patriots connections. Culley did as well, probably better than could ever have been expected and is leaving with $23m in his pocket.

 

[Alan]

Has to be Flores. Caserio knows him and rates him.

Culley is still the coach in Houston today if Miami hadn’t got rid of Flores, IMO.

The Black coaching situation in the NFL is a fucking embarrassment.

 

[Johnny75]

Has to be Flores. Caserio knows him and rates him.

Culley is still the coach in Houston today if Miami hadn’t got rid of Flores, IMO.

The Black coaching situation in the NFL is a fucking embarrassment.

How is it an embarrassment?

 

[Alan]

How is it an embarrassment?

~60% of NFL players are Black. Meanwhile, in the most visible position of authority in the NFL, head coach, only 6% are Black (and that's only if Flores does get hired by someone as a HC). Black coaches are also historically fired more quickly than White coaches and are re-hired to a HC position after a firing much less often, regardless of record.

That discrepancy is indefensible, IMO.

 

[Johnny75]

~60% of NFL players are Black. Meanwhile, in the most visible position of authority in the NFL, head coach, only 6% are Black (and that's only if Flores does get hired by someone as a HC). Black coaches are also historically fired more quickly than White coaches and are re-hired to a HC position after a firing much less often, regardless of record.

That discrepancy is indefensible, IMO.

You're equating playing with coaching which is a mistake. Of the current NFL HC's only Campbell, Reich, Vrabel and Riviera played in the NFL for any length of time.

Not sure on you raising the racism card for being fired quickly. Isn't it based on performance in the main?

Dungee and Tomlin were/ are around forever. One has and one hasn't played. Flores didn't play either.

You can argue that not enough people of colour go into coaching but that's a different argument.

 

[Dire Wolf]

If Leslie Frasier, the Bills defensive coordinator, doesn't get a HC job then something ain't right. He should be nailed on for the Bears job IMO.

 

[Alan]

It's not a different argument. Structural racism puts more barriers in place for Black coaches, like the aforementioned shorter leash they are on in terms of firing. These barriers, naturally, lead to fewer Black individuals pursuing coaching in the first place.

When over 50% of your workforce is a particular race that has been enslaved, killed, and generally undervalued both explicitly and implicitly, and their bosses are overwhelmingly of a race that has benefitted from structural racism since the inception of this country; that is indicative of a major cultural problem.

However, that's not to say that the NFL is responsible for fixing this. Structural racism will exist in the NFL for as long as it exists in western culture at large. The two cannot be divorced.

I would also point out that of course owners point to firings as "performance based", but the underlying statistics show us that Black coaches have less job security than White coaches regardless of record, that they are promoted from within at lower rates than their White counterparts, and that they are less likely to be given a second chance once they have been fired.

Dungy, Tomlin, Flores, et al. are exceptions to the rule and in no way disprove the NFL as a racist institution.

Hopefully this link works in the UK, Johnny. You may find Dungy's comments here interesting.
Brian Flores firing shows what Black NFL head coaches still face - The Washington Post

 

[Alan]

The NFL’s problem with Black coaches has never been more disturbing (usatoday.com)

^Another half decent article on the subject.

 

[Johnny75]

It's not a different argument. Structural racism puts more barriers in place for Black coaches, like the aforementioned shorter leash they are on in terms of firing. These barriers, naturally, lead to fewer Black individuals pursuing coaching in the first place.

When over 50% of your workforce is a particular race that has been enslaved, killed, and generally undervalued both explicitly and implicitly, and their bosses are overwhelmingly of a race that has benefitted from structural racism since the inception of this country; that is indicative of a major cultural problem.

However, that's not to say that the NFL is responsible for fixing this. Structural racism will exist in the NFL for as long as it exists in western culture at large. The two cannot be divorced.

I would also point out that of course owners point to firings as "performance based", but the underlying statistics show us that Black coaches have less job security than White coaches regardless of record, that they are promoted from within at lower rates than their White counterparts, and that they are less likely to be given a second chance once they have been fired.

Dungy, Tomlin, Flores, et al. are exceptions to the rule and in no way disprove the NFL as a racist institution.

I don't agree with any of this Alan. Mostly because' you're still equating playing with coaching which in the NFL isn't true.

 

[Alan]

Then take the percentage of players who are Black out of it.

Everything else I've said remains true. Black head coaches are fired more quickly and rehired less often than their White peers, regardless of record. What justification is there for that?

 

[Johnny75]

Then take the percentage of players who are Black out of it.

Everything else I've said remains true. Black head coaches are fired more quickly and rehired less often than their White peers, regardless of record. What justification is there for that?

The coaches listed in the article you posted were all terrible.

Florida have sacked Flores because they want somebody else not because of his colour and I think that's a mistake on their part.

The Giants keeping Judge is plain bizarre as everybody but the owner hates him.

I will concede there is clearly some truth in black coaches not coming through and nobody seems to explain this. It's the same with GM's which are left out of the article.

I like the coaching pathway in college and the NFL and like that you don't have to play the game itself which is where our football is wrong.

I don't know why more people of colour aren't coaching, could it be as simple as people not doing the qualifications?

 

[Tony Towner]

The coaches listed in the article you posted were all terrible.

Florida have sacked Flores because they want somebody else not because of his colour and I think that's a mistake on their part.

The Giants keeping Judge is plain bizarre as everybody but the owner hates him.

I will concede there is clearly some truth in black coaches not coming through and nobody seems to explain this. It's the same with GM's which are left out of the article.

I like the coaching pathway in college and the NFL and like that you don't have to play the game itself which is where our football is wrong.

I don't know why more people of colour aren't coaching, could it be as simple as people not doing the qualifications?

Judge was sacked

 

[Johnny75]

Judge was sacked

Missed that, about time too. It was so odd keeping him for so long, it was obvious he was terrible.