The Live Match Discussion Thread: 2019/2020

[slink]

Imagine a Klopp team (even with 10 men) losing to Wolves at 2-0 up.

Wouldn't happen, would it.

No because they would defend. He's not changed that way of defending since Barca but as good as City are and Bayern were they haven't had prime Puyol, Pique, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Villa etc..... Over a season they will more often than not win the league but in a knock out competition they are always that little bit too vulnerable. People can talk about VAR for the second goal all they want but the defending and the positioning and reaction of those defenders just isn't good enough.

 

[Tony Towner]

Sterling does what he does and Ederson does what he does then in 60 seconds you get what you deserve.

Pep now a decade? without a CL despite being with 2 of the biggest club sides in Europe

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

The offside was apparently fine according to referee apologist Walton so I guess it comes down to whether it was a foul or not.

 

[YoungWolf]

No because they would defend. He's not changed that way of defending since Barca but as good as City are and Bayern were they haven't had prime Puyol, Pique, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Villa etc..... Over a season they will more often than not win the league but in a knock out competition they are always that little bit too vulnerable. People can talk about VAR for the second goal all they want but the defending and the positioning and reaction of those defenders just isn't good enough.

City did defend in that game though, in fact they bizarrely sat off of us really deep! They just did it badly.

That Bayern team was amazing though. He got the first semi final against Madrid totally wrong but I’ve never seen a team so undeservedly lose as they did against Atletico that time.

It’s all such fine margins I find. Why it baffles me that Madrid won four out of five champions leagues, as its proving so hard to win one champions league let alone two or more in a row! You wouldn’t say that was a revolutionary team yet they just kept finding a way to score at the right time and win games without playing well at all

 

[slink]

City did defend in that game though, in fact they bizarrely sat off of us really deep! They just did it badly.

That Bayern team was amazing though. He got the first semi final against Madrid totally wrong but I’ve never seen a team so undeservedly lose as they did against Atletico that time.

It’s all such fine margins I find. Why it baffles me that Madrid won four out of five champions leagues, as its proving so hard to win one champions league let alone two or more in a row! You wouldn’t say that was a revolutionary team yet they just kept finding a way to score at the right time and win games without playing well at all

That proves my point though, they don't really know how to defend in any situation, once it gets past the half way line it's game on. It is almost like they don't really do any defending in training. They make so many individual errors it's so frustrating. His Bayern side were amazing and so are this City side but you can't be unlucky all the time, there has to be a reason and the common factor is Pep. He makes them great but he also makes them vulnerable. I've said this before on here i think he tries to reinvent the wheel sometimes and he doesn't need to. I find it really frustrating because he's an outstanding coach, manager, tactician, everything you would want but he does have that side which exposes his team too much and what would he have achieved without that.

It's definitely fine margins and Real are testament to that, couldn't win the league at one point but couldn't be beat in the Champions League. They were just suited to knockout football and players/managers getting it spot on on the day. In City's case those players don't quite step up enough and make those errors like tonight.

 

[YoungWolf]

I think in one off games like these (or as proved even two legged champions league ties) as its such a small sample size you probably can be that unlucky but I know what you mean. As you say, what makes his teams great is also what makes them so vulnerable, I think that’s why he goes to such lengths to then try and combat that, as he did tonight with the back 3. We saw with the back four in the second half why he was so worried about it as they broke twice and scored twice. I think he should just go for it more often, try and blow away teams, but he’s been scarred by previous times that going against him

I think a big issue has been Rodri, been a downgrade so far on the Fernandinho of the previous two seasons, to the extent that hes put Gundogan in to hold his hand which has had mixed results. With time he will probably grow into the role but it’s caused them huge issues this season, as well as their issues at centre back.

 

[Deano]

City fans I have spoken to don't think Rodri is ever going to be up to it for the level they need. From what I have seen I have to agree, they definitely need another CB and a striker though which are higher priorities.

 

[YoungWolf]

I think he will improve as he’s a clever footballer but just not sure if he’s mobile enough to play as a single holding midfielder for a team like City

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Rodri is an upgrade on Fernandinho when they have possession but a massive downgrade out of possession, in a team that's going to commit players forward in the way that City always do then you need that defensive midfielder to be able to cover the ground and if needs be just be a bit of a shit bag to stop the attacks that look like they're getting a bit too far. Rodri is far too immobile for that role as it stands, and seemingly far too much of a nice guy to make up for it in other ways too.

I think it's something that would go against Neves if a real top club were considering him too, he's a fabulous distributor of the ball from that position and whilst he defends excellently in Wolves generally deep numbers heavy shape I think he'd be a lot more exposed with just a couple of centre halves behind him and a lot of space to exploit around them.

Getting that position right makes a huge difference to the top teams now that so many have generally gone away from a pair of deep lying midfield players, you need a really strong defensive presence to cover than ground and let the fullbacks bomb on with the rest of the midfield, just look at the difference Fabinho has made at Liverpool since he settled into the team.

 

[YoungWolf]

Yeah Fabinho is a rock. Wonder why city didn’t go for him that summer they bought silva and mendy from Monaco.

Neves is an interesting one, I know what you mean but think where he has really stepped up this year is how much ground he is covering these days. United are screaming out for a holding midfielder for him but they seek to be happy chugging along with Fred and Matic sharing the role. I think neves improvement this year (and if we sign a more mobile centre back) might allow us to play that little bit higher, especially when we have the ball. Would certainly help us sustain pressure in opponents half and play nearer to the opposition goal and hopefully (!) create more chances more often

 

[Deano]

Neves is an interesting player, he is a lot different - he's a deep lying playmaker but he has massively improved his positioning and tackling in the last 2 seasons. He's in a position where he probably hasn't done quite enough just yet to earn a big money move to one of the top clubs but I think one more season with Wolves and he will be there..I think he is going to the very top with a top CL team. He's been brilliant this season especially in the second half of the season.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Yeah Fabinho is a rock. Wonder why city didn’t go for him that summer they bought silva and mendy from Monaco.

Neves is an interesting one, I know what you mean but think where he has really stepped up this year is how much ground he is covering these days. United are screaming out for a holding midfielder for him but they seek to be happy chugging along with Fred and Matic sharing the role. I think neves improvement this year (and if we sign a more mobile centre back) might allow us to play that little bit higher, especially when we have the ball. Would certainly help us sustain pressure in opponents half and play nearer to the opposition goal and hopefully (!) create more chances more often

United would be alright for him I think as they still tend to have two deeper midfielders, though Pogba being one of them doesn't always give the solidity you'd usually hope for, maybe Spurs too as Mourinho still tends to like a safety first approach but their midfield is so much of a mess at the moment it's difficult to tell what he's really aiming for most weeks.

I think Neves could be pivotal in allowing Wolves to make that transition to a more assertive team. There have been games where he's shown himself to be really good defensively, albeit with a lot of support from the way the rest of the team is set up, and also games where he's saw much more of the ball and been more able to exert his influence, such as the recent Everton game. I think the area he needs to work on most now is be more confident in having the ball in tight areas, receiving it with his back to the opposition goal more and being that outlet for all around him when games are tight, been quiet a few games since the restart where things have ended up a bit scrappy with possession at a premium and it's been quite surprising from both Neves and Moutinho how hesitant they have been to put a foot on the ball in an attempt to settle things down. When opponents allow Wolves time and space in their own half he's in his element, dropping in to take the ball from the defence and look to play those raking crossfield balls but there are times, perhaps becoming more frequent now too, where he needs to stay higher up the pitch and let the defence bring it up themselves, then he's naturally going to end up playing in more restricted spaces and having to work harder to find space where he can turn and play those more incisive passes.

 

[slink]

I think in one off games like these (or as proved even two legged champions league ties) as its such a small sample size you probably can be that unlucky but I know what you mean. As you say, what makes his teams great is also what makes them so vulnerable, I think that’s why he goes to such lengths to then try and combat that, as he did tonight with the back 3. We saw with the back four in the second half why he was so worried about it as they broke twice and scored twice. I think he should just go for it more often, try and blow away teams, but he’s been scarred by previous times that going against him

I think a big issue has been Rodri, been a downgrade so far on the Fernandinho of the previous two seasons, to the extent that hes put Gundogan in to hold his hand which has had mixed results. With time he will probably grow into the role but it’s caused them huge issues this season, as well as their issues at centre back.

He was really worried about his team defending and maybe even with an eye on Bayern but i can't help but think surely a better way to go than the 3 at the back would be to put Fernandinho next to Rodri and let a front 4 cause havoc with Walker and Cancelo supporting. Rodri is a fantastic footballer but i agree he's not where Fernandinho was but not many are and even if he grows into the role he will do it differently because he's not the same type of player.

 

[Jack Regan]

Another appalling penalty decision in United's favour.

 

[Freddeno]

how the fuck is that a pen for man u

 

[Premier Quality]

Penalty for Utd already, shocker

 

[slink]

That should be a penalty in my opinion but 9 times out of 10 it isn't given because Rashford got the shot away and it happened in the follow through.

 

[YoungWolf]

Was an awful challenge!

Those aren’t given anywhere near enough (we got one for a foul on Doherty against Bournemouth last season). Just typical it happened to be for United I guess that it finally was

 

[Freddeno]

That should be a penalty in my opinion but 9 times out of 10 it isn't given because Rashford got the shot away and it happened in the follow through.

exactly my point..he got the shot away and situation over..

 

[Premier Quality]

I think the point there is that those penalties are never given - except for Man Utd...