The F1 Thread

[Paddingtonwolf]

Michael Andretti came over into McLaren (I think) and wasn't competitive. I like watching Indy Car - I love the speed and use of slipstream to make long drawn out overtaking manouvres. However, F1 contains more skill elements for the driver because of the different types of track.

 

[Nando]

I'm not going to argue with you there Waggy, you're quite right. I watched Jacques Villeneuve in the second tier of NASCAR (well I think it was), and in his very first race at Montreal the difference in ability was staggering.

F1 may not be as exciting as many forms of motorsport, but there's something about if that for most people makes it that little bit more special. You watch in hope that you might get to see something special, that other drivers around the world in different formats simply couldn't do.

 

[Law's Bus]

Michael Andretti came over into McLaren (I think) and wasn't competitive.

He was more stunningly unlucky than off the pace. Realistically, most people paired with Senna were going to look second-best. It's also illuminating to remember that whilst everyone raves about Senna's opening lap at Donington, Michael Andretti followed him through most of the way before getting taken out by Karl Wendlinger's Sauber.

I can only remember about half a dozen IndyCar drivers coming to F1 since the mid 1970s - Bobby Rahal, Kevin Cogan, Jacques Villeneuve, Michael Andretti, Juan Pablo Montoya and Sebastian Bourdais. Of those, Rahal and Cogan had only a couple of races in an old car, Villeneuve and Montoya were successful, whilst Bourdais and Andretti were both better than their results suggested.

Of drivers heading the other way, Mansell instantly won the IndyCar title; Alex Zanardi won it fairly quickly before coming unsuccessfully back to F1 and the rest were a pretty unsuccessful bunch - but then they were relatively unsuccessful in F1 too.

Realistically, the talents required in each series to succeed is different, and it's noticeable that only thee men have ever been champions of both series - Mansell, Villeneuve and Mario Andretti.

 

[Nando]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9267715.stm

Farcical.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I suspect that Tony Hernandez may have something to say about that. Having said that, I really like the colour scheme of that renault - reminds me of a senna era lotus or an old wolf racing car.

 

[Nando]

They're both going for the classic black & gold livery. It's going to be ridiculous.

 

[Law's Bus]

Group Lotus must be mad. They're not allowed to use the "Lotus" brand in F1, Team Lotus are the only ones allowed to do that. Team Lotus are allowed to use the "Lotus" badge on single seaters. Group Lotus have NEVER been in single-seater racing, so how the hell can they claim that "Lotus is back", when Group Lotus was never there in the first place?

Group are just being bloody minded because they didn't buy Team when they had the chance, and now they're desperately claiming that Team has "always" been a part of Group. Err, no, it hasn't.

I can't see how Tony Fernandes can lose the court case - it's open and shut to anyone who looks beyond the simple "Lotus make cars, so they must be Lotus" angle.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

perhaps one could be predominantly gold and the other predominantly black. sportingbet would be banging their door down, and burrda could design their spoilers

 

[Kenny]

It will be ace. The BBC team struggle with Red Bull and the TR cars so 2 teams in identical cars will mess with their heads.

 

[yabbadabbadoo]

Betcha didn't know Lotus used to get their gearsets batch produced in Wolverhampton.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

I'm confused, so has the Lotus team from last season got the proper Lotus racing name but not official backing from the manufacturer and what was previously the Renault team got it the other way round ?

 

[Law's Bus]

I'm confused, so has the Lotus team from last season got the proper Lotus racing name but not official backing from the manufacturer and what was previously the Renault team got it the other way round ?

It is very confusing.

There are TWO Lotus companies, both originally owned by Colin Chapman. The first, Team Lotus, was the racing team producing mainly F1 (but also F3) cars. The second, Group Lotus, is the road car manufacturer. The two companies were (and are) totally separate.

Team Lotus went bust in 1994, and was bought by David Hunt who lacked the money to keep it going, but kept the company ticking over.

Group Lotus (via a few other companies) was bought by Proton in the late 1990s.

Tony Fernandes brought back the Lotus name last year, by a licensing deal with Group Lotus for use of the name "Lotus", hence "Lotus Racing", not "Team Lotus", which wasn't within Group Lotus's remit to give. Fernandes did a deal with David Hunt to buy Team Lotus, hence Lotus Racing became Team Lotus, and announced way back in September that they would be using the old JPS black and gold colour scheme in 2011.

Group Lotus have now bought Renault F1, and are now claiming that "Lotus is back in F1", which is utter nonsense because Group Lotus have never been in F1. And they've decided to go for a black and gold colour scheme. Indeed, Group Lotus aren't allowed to use "Lotus" in F1, only Team can do that. Group are also claiming all of Team's historical achievements.

The upshot is that Team Lotus (which have done a deal with Renault for engines) is now "Lotus Renault".
Group Lotus now sponsor the Renault F1 team, and so are called, yes, you guessed it, "Lotus Renault".

There's a court case going through the High Court right now about just who can be called "Lotus" in F1, but my money's firmly on Tony Fernandes winning.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Thanks for the explanation Laws, seems a little odd that Team Lotus was originally set up as a seperate company to the road car company of Lotus Group all those years ago. Guess maybe it was a way to ensure the 2 didn't interfere with each other financially or something.

 

[Law's Bus]

Guess maybe it was a way to ensure the 2 didn't interfere with each other financially or something.

That's exactly it. Group and Team were protected from one another even if the original idea was that Group would subsidise Team.

Just to throw a little more confusion into the mix: Classic Team Lotus is yet another separate company that deals with historic Team Lotus cars!

 

[MARKakaJIM]

I think i might be the only person thats a bit disappointed about both teams going to the black/gold colourscheme, as iconic as the JPS cars were i'm a big fan of the even older Team Lotus colours, green with the big yellow stripe. In saying that though, the older colours looked better on the older cars with the big radiator intake at the front having a yellow surround that then blended into the stripe running over the top of the car, that was a feature i missed on last years car.

 

[Kenny]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mo...ours-as-Formula-One-rivals-Lotus-Renault.html

 

[jlo]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mo...ours-as-Formula-One-rivals-Lotus-Renault.html

Wise move from team lotus. I hope they can make a real step up next year and compete with some of the mid table teams.

 

[Kenny]

I see the rule banning team orders has been removed completely.

Fernando Alonso likes this

 

[yabbadabbadoo]

On a tangent, Tom Walkinshaw has died after battling with cancer.

Tom's involvment in F1 with Benetton Racing was short, controversial and explosive - literally so, with the pitlane fire at Hockenheim in '94 while he was in charge of the team. He was a tough, determined and shrewd operator, a damned good wheel jockey and had an eye for bending rules made by the old farts in the FIA, and his single-mindedness was a big factor in bringing Jaguar so much success in racing back in the 80's after a being away for nigh-on 30 years.

A big man who will be missed. RIP Tom.

 

[Kenny]

I see BBC have altered the commentary line up for next season. Jonathan Legard has gone, Martin Brundle is now the lead and Coulthard the co