Summer 2021 transfer window

[Johnny75]

We have to sign a centre back, I think that is obvious. Whether we get the right signing is another matter of course, but we will be signing one. I think centre midfield is a fairly similar issue with Moutinho's age, even if Vitinha takes his role.

I think set up in a 4 is more critical than anything. We could easily have a central two if they stay central.

Can't be having Podence as a 10 either, far too lightweight and injury prone.

I would say an AM and CB are the keys if Nuno goes with 4 at the back. The AM has to have a physical presence that would allow Silva to play up top. An Alli or Havertz type.

If we are going with 3 at the back then we need 2 CB's and a CF as Fabio can't play up top for the reasons above.

Our recruitment this summer is the most important for us since we came up.

 

[YoungWolf]

I wasn't so much referring to the defensive side. Ignoring the height element would any of those 3 been there to score Donck's goal?

Fair enough. Perhaps not, Gibbs-White probably attacks the box from deep tbf if given the games in a central position. Otasowie might too I guess from the very little I have seen.

 

[Tredman]

my worry with Vitinha is not his mobility but more his actual defensive ability. Moutinho fouls when put in the situations Donck was (and often finds a way to avoid a booking), so I don't think his mobility woould have been issue either. Vitinha was quite good winning it back quickly after turnovers last night but that was when they were sitting on the lead and didn't have Antonio, we really need to see to find out I think.

That or play him in a three with Gibbs-White/Otasowie.

3 would be the only way it would work I think - Neves + New + Vitinha

 

[PuntsWolf]

All this talk about recruitment and systems. We’ve got a Portugal international DM and a Belgium international DM. Both perfectly suited to playing in a 4-2-3-1.

But we get it all wrong leaving Neves exposed back there with the FBs high. He’s not got the pace and mobility of a Ndidi, Kante, Fabinho to get around and shut things down.

We’re probably not going to sign a better DM pairing than them, without a massive fee. So the issue isn’t the players we have, it’s how we are using them.

 

[Johnny75]

All this talk about recruitment and systems. We’ve got a Portugal international DM and a Belgium international DM. Both perfectly suited to playing in a 4-2-3-1.

But we get it all wrong leaving Neves exposed back there with the FBs high. He’s not got the pace and mobility of a Ndidi, Kante, Fabinho to get around and shut things down.

We’re probably not going to sign a better DM pairing than them, without a massive fee. So the issue isn’t the players we have, it’s how we are using them.

Rodri isn't very mobile and City do OK. It isn't about the full back getting high, it's about who is playing beside Neves and the press. We don't press well as a team and that's what we need to do if the full backs are high up. Couple that with 2 passive CB's and that is a recipe for disaster.

So it is all about systems and recruitment.

 

[YoungWolf]

City had big problems for almost a whole season because they didn't support Rodri properly. Guardiola had to essentially shield him better to prevent counter attacks, which for them has meant bringing in a full back and having a 3-2 shape behind or alongside the ball a lot of the time.

They basically play

Stones-Dias-Zinchenko
Cancelo-Rodri

with the ball a lot of the time. I think you could probably do that with us as our wide players like to stay on the touchline, you just need the supporting midfielder and attacking midfielder to support effectively through the middle

 

[Johnny75]

I thought City solved it by having a dominant CB rather than tucking in a FB.

 

[YoungWolf]

I thought City solved it by having a dominant CB rather than tucking in a FB.

Helps but they still have Cancelo/Zinchenko inside a lot of the time

 

[PuntsWolf]

Rodri isn't very mobile and City do OK. It isn't about the full back getting high, it's about who is playing beside Neves and the press. We don't press well as a team and that's what we need to do if the full backs are high up. Couple that with 2 passive CB's and that is a recipe for disaster.

So it is all about systems and recruitment.

What YW says.

But as I alluded to in a post yesterday. City, Barcelona whoever can get away with it because their attacking players are so good that they push you so far back and then press you so hard when they lose it you are suffocated immediately. But even if that fails, you’re backing their world class CBs to bail them out in a 1 v 1 or just take the foul (not that lol merchant Otamendi, although that’s the only thing He was good at was fouls on the half way line).

We don’t have the attacking players, we press badly, and then have poor defenders. Signing better players doesnt fix the tactical issues.

 

[Johnny75]

Helps but they still have Cancelo/Zinchenko inside a lot of the time

Playing a ball winner such as Fernandhino also helps as it frees both full backs to go forward. I think we could do that. My wider point is that we shouldn't be asking Neves to cover anything but central positions as Rodri does. Donk should be doing the same but Nuno has both of them going into full back areas for some reason which creates a gaping chasm in the middle of the pitch.

 

[Johnny75]

What YW says.

But as I alluded to in a post yesterday. City, Barcelona whoever can get away with it because their attacking players are so good that they push you so far back and then press you so hard when they lose it you are suffocated immediately. But even if that fails, you’re backing their world class CBs to bail them out in a 1 v 1 or just take the foul (not that lol merchant Otamendi, although that’s the only thing He was good at was fouls on the half way line).

We don’t have the attacking players, we press badly, and then have poor defenders. Signing better players doesnt fix the tactical issues.

This comes across as overly negative to me. I agree that tactically Nuno has this wrong but we do have the attacking players and our defenders aren't poor at what they do well. Coady isn't in the England squad for just being a leader.

I don't think playing a 4 is the answer, I think we have the players to play a 5 and play it well, it just needs a bit of a tweak and that is down to our attacking movement off the ball which is very poor.

 

[Del Woppio]

I think you could see yesterday we were trying tp press higher and with more intensity, but we just weren't very good at it. We've got 8 pre-pre-season games to keep working at it for me

 

[YoungWolf]

The thing is, we don't even have to press high. We could easily drop into a 'mid' block like we generally have under Nuno. But we do seem keen to press a bit higher, which is fine, but there is so much space between the defensive units that it's so easy to play through us. Then factor in the lack of pressure on the ball individually and it's a recipe for disaster. We seem stuck in-between, so hopefully that is more of a teething issue than an actual tactic, because Nuno seemed to not be happy with it.

 

[PuntsWolf]

This comes across as overly negative to me. I agree that tactically Nuno has this wrong but we do have the attacking players and our defenders aren't poor at what they do well. Coady isn't in the England squad for just being a leader.

This is exactly my point! The players aren’t that bad! But they are being set up to fail.

 

[Tony Towner]

Assuming Traore is off and Jonny out for most of next season. We need to sign 3 starting players for whichever formation we go with. Talk of replacing Semedo or Rui is pointless discussing as it's not going to happen.

4231
--------------------------Rui-----------
----Semedo---New----Boly------New (RAN?)
--------------------Neves-----Donck-------
--------Neto------New-----Podence
--------------------------Raul---------

343
---------------------------Rui----------------
-------New-------Coady-------Boly-----------
Semedo-----Neves-----New----New (RAN?)
------Neto------Raul------Podence

Add to that a forward who can play across the line

 

[YoungWolf]

Assuming Traore is off and Jonny out for most of next season. We need to sign 3 starting players for whichever formation we go with. Talk of replacing Semedo or Rui is pointless discussing as it's not going to happen.

4231
--------------------------Rui-----------
----Semedo---New----Boly------New (RAN?)
--------------------Neves-----Donck-------
--------Neto------New-----Podence
--------------------------Raul---------

343
---------------------------Rui----------------
-------New-------Coady-------Boly-----------
Semedo-----Neves-----New----New (RAN?)
------Neto------Raul------Podence

Add to that a forward who can play across the line

This is basically how I would look at it right now.

 

[AndyWolves]

The thing is, we don't even have to press high. We could easily drop into a 'mid' block like we generally have under Nuno. But we do seem keen to press a bit higher, which is fine, but there is so much space between the defensive units that it's so easy to play through us. Then factor in the lack of pressure on the ball individually and it's a recipe for disaster. We seem stuck in-between, so hopefully that is more of a teething issue than an actual tactic, because Nuno seemed to not be happy with it.

Agree with this.

We used to be about shape and getting players into areas and now we seem to have gone too far the other way!

It's about finding the balance between winning the ball back high up the pitch and leaving yourself wide open to counter attacks.

 

[prawnking]

This is exactly my point! The players aren’t that bad! But they are being set up to fail.

Have we possibly reached Nuno's ceiling? He's certainly over-thought and shot himself and us in the foot since last season ended.

I agree that some of the assessments I've read of our players are too negative, we supposedly shouldn't be playing Semedo, Coady and Saiss in a back four when they're all internationals and first choice defenders for us.

We're relying too much on this notion of signing boatloads of starting players in the summer. Based on previous transfer windows I'm not sure expecting us to buy four or five starters is that realistic. Even then, we buy a new CB and CM, what happens when they miss games? We either have to put Coady/Saiss/Donk back in the team or find a way of making 343/352 work again.

 

[YoungWolf]

Coady and Saiss can't be playing in a back four together IMO, based on their individual strengths and weaknesses. We've seen that too many times now. What we need to see is one of them alongside Boly for a run of games, to see if it works, but for now we've been robbed again of that opportunity.

 

[prawnking]

Coady and Saiss can't be playing in a back four together IMO, based on their individual strengths and weaknesses. We've seen that too many times now. What we need to see is one of them alongside Boly for a run of games, to see if it works, but for now we've been robbed again of that opportunity.

Players are gonna miss games though, it'll happen next season too. We can't only function when Boly plays. I fear this season has exposed a lot of our players as being as system-dependent as Doc was.