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Relegation run in 22/23 ** Now a Wolves free zone**

Leeds are a strange one if you look at their history theirs huge holes in it everywhere. Nothing second tier club until the early 60’s, excellent side from about 65-75 then nothing until 91/92, decent side late 90’s early 00’s then the wilderness again.
What helped them was their period of most success coinciding with the evolution of football on TV and MOTD coverage.
As said more than 50% of their league history is outside the top tier.
 
From 2004-2020 Leeds had no part in the PL in that period it’s grown bigger and secured far bigger TV deals without them.
I’d say there’s only 3 clubs the PL would genuinely miss if they weren’t their Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal.
Like of city, Spurs, Chelsea make up the big 6 but are nowhere near the same level of global pull as the other 3.
 
jd1981 said:
From 2004-2020 Leeds had no part in the PL in that period it’s grown bigger and secured far bigger TV deals without them.
I’d say there’s only 3 clubs the PL would genuinely miss if they weren’t their Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal.
Like of city, Spurs, Chelsea make up the big 6 but are nowhere near the same level of global pull as the other 3.
Click to expand...
Pep might disagree.
 
Leeds were one of the first non-Prem clubs I was exposed to over here fwiw (not much).

I’ve always thought of them as a big club.
 
The “big club” debate is a hoary old chestnut that causes a lot of debate and people getting their noses out of joint at where someone else ranks their club.

The unarguables are Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal. After that it gets much more murky and there are arguments for and against movement up and down someone’s personal ranking.

As we speak Manchester City would obviously argue they are a huge club. They are a behemoth in terms of resources now but are they really as big and storied as their neighbours? Really they aren’t. I have been in some big old crowds at the old Maine Road over the years so the supporter base could be argued to be there but they aren’t the global giants of the first three.

Chelsea - hugely successful after Roman pitched up but look at the trophy cabinet before them. It was reasonably sparsely populated. They sell out 40k, but United almost double that, and Liverpool will be 1.5 times it next season, as are Arsenal.

Spurs. Wonderful new ground. Perennial big six member. Perennial winner of not very much this century. The 1961 side was remarkable, and they were consistently good in the cups in the 1980s. It’s a while ago.

Villa. The B6 massive did something in 1982, but they don’t like to talk about it. The ground is big but not exactly well appointed these days. A very impressive palmares but bar that thing in 1982 that they don’t brag about and a league cup win nobody alive witnessed those achievements.

Newcastle - as above but even more mists of time. Bigger ground than Villa and now have a chance to push on and establish themselves in the group of “big clubs”. Which will put them with Spurs unless they start winning things.

Everton. 9 league titles is a great haul. But the last was 1987. They had a chance to grab a top table seat then but now it’s hard to argue they are up there near the first three I mentioned. Dixie Dean was a long time ago.

Sunderland. Loads of success. Donkeys years ago. Great club though and I would be delighted if they won the playoffs, but that is by the by here.

Leeds. Two periods of success. They were an exceptional side under Revie. Certainly not loved but they were undeniably good. Then Howard Wilkinson won them the title in 1992. A nice period of champions league appearances but they nearly bankrupted themselves and thus fell away. If they stick around maybe they could push on but the top six glass ceiling has potentially become a top seven with Newcastle awash with blood money so it’s going to be difficult.

I might as well mention ourselves I suppose. We were pretty fucking dominant, but the fifties is a long time ago. The early seventies side was also very good indeed. However, there is a reason why it was someone of Fergie’s age commented “the Premier League needs Wolves”. We are nowhere near the radar of most fans of a younger age group yet. We are a good size club with rich history and support but a long way off the real behemoths and it’s an impossible chasm to bridge on a regular basis. We will move up a bit in neutral estimations by a period of say two decades of constant top flight presence if we can manage it, but you do sort of need to win shit to get into the conversation. I mean, are Leicester in the conversation? Probably not, even with a league title and an FA Cup in the last decade.
 
Is Leeds the biggest city with only 1 team? Definitely works in their favour.

I’ll take any Northern team in the premier league over any London club thanks. Nothing will dissuade me. Fucking Charlton and QPR?? No
 
PL if it were just the Top 20 biggest clubs, only metric being my subjective opinion
Newcastle
Sunderland
Sheff Wed
Sheff Utd
Leeds
Liverpool
Everton
Man U
Man C
Wolves
Villa
Albion
Derby
Forest
Leicester
Chelsea
West Ham
Arsenal
Spurs
Norwich

In reality the 20 biggest clubs these days are the 20 that sit in it at any given time given the financial disparity
 
Does two league cups for Norwich outweigh 1 FA cup for Southampton? Crowds are similar size. Of course Huddersfield with three league titles are the fly in that particular ointment, but we never want them in the same division as us as they are our pretty much ultimate bogey team!
 
Tony Towner said:
PL if it were just the Top 20 biggest clubs, only metric being my subjective opinion
Newcastle
Sunderland
Sheff Wed
Sheff Utd
Leeds
Liverpool
Everton
Man U
Man C
Wolves
Villa
Albion
Derby
Forest
Leicester
Chelsea
West Ham
Arsenal
Spurs
Norwich

In reality the 20 biggest clubs these days are the 20 that sit in it at any given time given the financial disparity
Click to expand...

Blackburn in there over Norwich, for me
 
prawnking said:
Blackburn in there over Norwich, for me
Click to expand...
By the time you get to 19 or 20 I think you could substitute a number of teams like Southampton, Ipswich, Blackburn and Boro in. A younger person may also include Palace or Brighton an older one a Blackpool or Bolton. Even Coventry have a been a top tier side for a lot more of my life than they haven't
 
Tony Towner said:
PL if it were just the Top 20 biggest clubs, only metric being my subjective opinion
Newcastle
Sunderland
Sheff Wed
Sheff Utd
Leeds
Liverpool
Everton
Man U
Man C
Wolves
Villa
Albion
Derby
Forest
Leicester
Chelsea
West Ham
Arsenal
Spurs
Norwich

In reality the 20 biggest clubs these days are the 20 that sit in it at any given time given the financial disparity
Click to expand...

A lot you can’t argue with, personally I’d definitely have Blackburn, Ipswich, Bolton, over Norwich.
 
It's always gunna be subjective depending on age.
Ultimately deciding who are the biggest teams is a fun past time but completely pointless.
For me the top benchmarks are supporter numbers, trophy and longevity. Can't look past Manchester United and Arsenal as the 2 biggest.
You could make a case for any club averaging 30,000+ home support as big.
Not sure about pre WW2 but suspect there are a number of northern/midland sides who have multiple trophy and big gates, including us.
 
sycophantia said:
It's always gunna be subjective depending on age.
Ultimately deciding who are the biggest teams is a fun past time but completely pointless.
For me the top benchmarks are supporter numbers, trophy and longevity. Can't look past Manchester United and Arsenal as the 2 biggest.
You could make a case for any club averaging 30,000+ home support as big.
Not sure about pre WW2 but suspect there are a number of northern/midland sides who have multiple trophy and big gates, including us.
Click to expand...
Yes, it's 20 years since Sheff Wed went down and they don't have the European Cups to lean back on like Forest do for the younger generation. Someone in their 20s probably wouldn't consider them even though I think they comfortably make the list.
 
Tony Towner said:
PL if it were just the Top 20 biggest clubs, only metric being my subjective opinion
Newcastle
Sunderland
Sheff Wed
Sheff Utd
Leeds
Liverpool
Everton
Man U
Man C
Wolves
Villa
Albion
Derby
Forest
Leicester
Chelsea
West Ham
Arsenal
Spurs
Norwich

In reality the 20 biggest clubs these days are the 20 that sit in it at any given time given the financial disparity
Click to expand...

Does highlight you could have PL1 and PL2 two divisions of and no one would look out of place.

Take Tony’s leave PL 1 and PL 2 would be
Blackburn
Ipswich
Bolton
Portsmouth
Burnley
Palace
Brighton
Middlesbrough
Southampton
Birmingham
Cardiff
Swansea
Bristol City
Preston
Fulham
Charlton
Coventry
Watford
Luton
QPR
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
Liverpool are bigger than Arsenal. More titles, 6 European cups to nil. Not even a contest.
Click to expand...
Yeah meant to put Liverpool in there.
We stack up quite well outside of those teams although most of our success was over 60 years ago. 4 top league titles, 4 FA cups, 2 league cups.
 
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