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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

Is there any evidence of other professional associations following a similar strategy Penk?
 
I've not really noticed (or paid attention), but I would expect organisations to be sharing information and taking in information from other EU countries.

I'd be appalled if we stopped sharing ideas just because we'd left the EU.
 
Papper said:
That's because you are not and you do not have to justify anything. Ignore the insinuations and goading because they detract.
Click to expand...

Maybe you can answer the question I put to you a while ago Papper; if our infrastructure could sustain another million people comfortably and we all get good service would you still want to control immigration?
 
A fascinating article TSB.

I am all in favour of a universal income. I can't see it being a vote winner in this country, however. Sadly, I think too many people would be short sighted to the benefits and there would be outrage at the idea of giving people something for nothing (probably stirred up by our lovely media).

They're trialing it in Finland at the moment aren't they? I love Finland. They also don't believe children should start formal schooling until they are 7 (another idea that would probably horrify most people in this country) and have one of the best education systems in Europe.
 
The Saturday Boy said:
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...opian-thinking-poverty-universal-basic-income

A universal basic income would transform my life. Imagine what it could do for those who can't see further than today.

If the Labour Party really wants to present itself as an alternative they should stick this in their manifesto. Scrap benefits, give everyone a universal basic income. Live to work, not work to live.
Click to expand...

The defence rests. My work here is done. Me and tsb agree on a political point.
 
Johnny75 said:
You want every business to trade as a social enterprise? You know business profits aren't linked to wages directly?

Please excuse me if you know this but if you turn every business into a social enterprise where would the value in those businesses be and what would the city traders trade on? You'd more or less kill the financial markets stone dead.
Click to expand...

I'd love to kill the markets stone dead and rid us of the parasitical gamblers. Yes, strangely enough I know business profits aren't linked to wages !!! The value in a social enterprise is the word 'social'. I'm quite drawn to a non-profit, non-interest world without a system that creates money out of thin air. Scrap corporation tax and tax the assets of those who draw from it (At source).
 
I proposed universal basic income on here a couple of years ago and was very politely dismissed as a head-in-the-clouds crackpot. Glad to see you now all recognise my genius. :Victory:
 
Johnny75 said:
Maybe you can answer the question I put to you a while ago Papper; if our infrastructure could sustain another million people comfortably and we all get good service would you still want to control immigration?
Click to expand...

In Britain 2017 - I'm not against immigration per se unless it's low skilled, low paid. My point, which I have argued since the beginning of time is that I would rather see the unemployed, the forgotten underclass empowered to work instead of encouraging economic migration which is designed for the wealthy to feed off. Three million net since 1997 has not had a magical affect on the economy. If the shift is to low skilled workers then tax revenues are not going to meet what it costs to supply public services. The population as a whole (as a collective) takes more than what it gives. You have to factor in the costs placed on the NHS, Schools and a host of other things. It's not a simple case of dividing equally. Those on low pay (as a collective) are taking more than they give ( that's fine, that's reality it gets balanced out but to continually add to this number means those that do the balancing have to pay more - and it normally falls on 'Middle England' or they cut/borrow. People don't like that. As an example - It costs the taxpayer a minimum £3K a year for a child to go through school. To add to a population (and that doesn't mean scapegoating migrants) that is already stretched was not a great idea. GE 2015 Cons 11,334, Lab 9,347, UKIP 3,881
 
Tyrannosaurus Dan said:
A fascinating article TSB.

I am all in favour of a universal income. I can't see it being a vote winner in this country, however. Sadly, I think too many people would be short sighted to the benefits and there would be outrage at the idea of giving people something for nothing (probably stirred up by our lovely media).

They're trialing it in Finland at the moment aren't they? I love Finland. They also don't believe children should start formal schooling until they are 7 (another idea that would probably horrify most people in this country) and have one of the best education systems in Europe.
Click to expand...

I work full time and although based from home I can be travelling 2 or 3 hours a day to get to meetings. I am involved in 3 or 4 community groups all of which, in my opinion, are worthy in their different ways and give benefit to the place I live...but they all take a back seat to work (even family life is second to work). If I could give up a couple of days work I could either sit in front of the TV, spend more time and my hobbies or get more involved with the community groups - personally, any one of those would be preferable to working full time.

At the moment I am going to have to work until I am nearly 70 which means all my "best time" will be spent working. That doesn't seem like a good thing for me or for society.

Sure, some people will do nothing with it but in my view that would be amply compensated by the freedom many others will use constructively either to spend more time with family and friends, being healthier or getting involved in something else. I don't care if a minority of people abuse their benefits and I wouldn't care if people did nothing constructive with a Basic Income. Instead - measure what is achieved and I think it would enhance our society in many different ways.

And yes, formal education shouldn't start until 7 and there is plenty of evidence out there to support that. Kids should be taught how to play and socialise before they get to stuff like reading and writing.
 
The Saturday Boy said:
I work full time and although based from home I can be travelling 2 or 3 hours a day to get to meetings. I am involved in 3 or 4 community groups all of which, in my opinion, are worthy in their different ways and give benefit to the place I live...but they all take a back seat to work (even family life is second to work). If I could give up a couple of days work I could either sit in front of the TV, spend more time and my hobbies or get more involved with the community groups - personally, any one of those would be preferable to working full time.

At the moment I am going to have to work until I am nearly 70 which means all my "best time" will be spent working. That doesn't seem like a good thing for me or for society.

Sure, some people will do nothing with it but in my view that would be amply compensated by the freedom many others will use constructively either to spend more time with family and friends, being healthier or getting involved in something else. I don't care if a minority of people abuse their benefits and I wouldn't care if people did nothing constructive with a Basic Income. Instead - measure what is achieved and I think it would enhance our society in many different ways.

And yes, formal education shouldn't start until 7 and there is plenty of evidence out there to support that. Kids should be taught how to play and socialise before they get to stuff like reading and writing.
Click to expand...

Agree with pretty much all of this. I think the majority of people would use the time freed up by not being forced to work all the hours constructively and to the benefit of society as a whole.
 
I'm torn on the Universal Income thing.

On one hand I like that everyone is treated the same, everyone's boosted by whatever set amount from the government and if anyone chooses to do something to try and add more money to their pot then they're free to do so, I'd prefer to see everyone given that equal start rather than having their pots topped up in an attempt to level things out. On the other hand however, it seems a hell of a gamble to just give everyone the cash and let them do as they please with it, there are always going to be some people that make bad decisions and that could lead to a lot of money being wasted. Also, if someone living entirely off their UI with no other income from elsewhere blew all their cash, say they make an investment that doesn't pay off and they lose everything, what becomes off them then? Would there be a subsequent pot of government to help provide for people who make a mess of things or are they just let to their own devices if they can't sustain themselves through their UI?
 
The Saturday Boy said:
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...opian-thinking-poverty-universal-basic-income

A universal basic income would transform my life. Imagine what it could do for those who can't see further than today.

If the Labour Party really wants to present itself as an alternative they should stick this in their manifesto. Scrap benefits, give everyone a universal basic income. Live to work, not work to live.
Click to expand...

It is a fabulous idea and I am all for this but who cleans the toilets? How many would sit back and do nothing? How do you make people productive when they don't want to be?
 
Two day week sounds fantastic, the advert for another 40 staff will go in the papers tonight...
 
Papper said:
It is a fabulous idea and I am all for this but who cleans the toilets? How many would sit back and do nothing? How do you make people productive when they don't want to be?
Click to expand...

You pay more to attract people.
 
So Long Architect said:
I proposed universal basic income on here a couple of years ago and was very politely dismissed as a head-in-the-clouds crackpot. Glad to see you now all recognise my genius. :Victory:
Click to expand...

It may have been a couple of years at and I would not have given it such consideration or thought as I do now if we had not had so much anst, so many complaints about the system being abused, brexit and the current state of political affairs. It made me conclude we needed something completely different. Box ticked.
 
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