REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[ProgWolf]

Gladly.

I don't mind calling people out for what they are.

For what 'you' think they are you mean and your crass left wing bollocks.

I can't make the game this Saturday, but I will be going to the Cardiff game on April 1st, which is a good day for you.
Perhaps we can exchange pleasantries in The Great Western ?

I will certainly have no problem telling you what I think about you to your face.

 

[ProgWolf]

FAO ProgWolf
https://g.co/kgs/8JYKtc

....and even if what you say is true, your point is ?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Yeah, I bet that'll happen.

Everyone on here knows who I am and where I go, if you fancy turning up then feel free. I don't drink with racists though so probably best if you just wait outside. Then you can unleash your bizarre hatred of "left wing bollocks" and maybe give me a bit of a tirade about how things were better before all those coons came over.

 

[machin05]

:facepalm:

 

[ProgWolf]

I don't want you to get banned. Why would I? I'm happy enough for you to expose yourself for what you are. Happy enough to say it to your face too.

Would love to know the details of my "extreme left" politics though as I've spent 35 years blissfully unaware of them.

...."Expose myself for what I am ?" How sanctimonious of you. You can dress up your political views whichever way you wish.
It's getting a bit boring on this thread now though and all the replies will be so predictable so I will leave it there and hopefully we can meet up before the Cardiff game.

 

[Tony Towner]

....and even if what you say is true, your point is ?

You came on this forum as a marginal Brexiteer, which I think everyone would respect. You then posted and posted and posted your one eyed link to supposedly why you voted Brexit, which was destroyed by numerous people for the crock of shit it was, but wasn't in any way racist and you were treated with respect because of that. Since then you have become more and more right wing in your arguments and rationale and now as per the above you are showing your 'true colours'.

 

[ProgWolf]

Yeah, I bet that'll happen.

Everyone on here knows who I am and where I go, if you fancy turning up then feel free. I don't drink with racists though so probably best if you just wait outside. Then you can unleash your bizarre hatred of "left wing bollocks" and maybe give me a bit of a tirade about how things were better before all those coons came over.

I certainly won't be there to have a drink with you or anyone like you. Unleash my bizarre hatred ?, that's like me saying you can unleash your bizarre hatred of white working class English people or anyone that voted to Leave the EU. Totally missing my point about my concerns about Immigration, but then that's what you do isn't it.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

...."Expose myself for what I am ?" How sanctimonious of you. You can dress up your political views whichever way you wish.
It's getting a bit boring on this thread now though and all the replies will be so predictable so I will leave it there and hopefully we can meet up before the Cardiff game.

Whenever you like. I wouldn't threaten me if I were you.

 

[Trips]

Prog, I was quite interested in hearing your concerns on immigration. I live in what you refer to as "White Middle Class Leafy Suburbia" so maybe I'm not as exposed to immigration as other parts of the country.

With your posts over the last hour, I probably understand your "concerns" over immigration already now.

 

[ProgWolf]

You came on this forum as a marginal Brexiteer, which I think everyone would respect. You then posted and posted and posted your one eyed link to supposedly why you voted Brexit, which was destroyed by numerous people for the crock of shit it was, but wasn't in any way racist and you were treated with respect because of that. Since then you have become more and more right wing in your arguments and rationale and now as per the above you are showing your 'true colours'.

No one destroyed anything I said, they just gave their opinions. I have given some opinions today that you don't like, about my concerns about Immigration and why I think we have too many here, so of course people like you will deem me to be a racist. People that know me, my family and friends, would disagree. But they are only opinions and I don't think anyone on here is going to lose any sleep over any of this.

 

[Langers]

Hmm... I don't tend to participate in this thread but I'm not happy with the last few pages.

Please keep it civil - and please reacquaint yourselves with the announcement at the top of this subforum.

 

[ProgWolf]

Whenever you like. I wouldn't threaten me if I were you.

Threaten you ? I'm in my fifties. I thought we could meet up to challenge each others opinions ? Doesn't have to be on a match day or even in a pub. How can you judge someone from a few comments on a forum. I over-reacted to your insults. If you could be bothered to talk to me for 10 minutes and listen to my life experiences, you would see that I am not a racist wanker or even a racist. I'm just concerned about the numbers coming in, that's all.

 

[Trips]

No one destroyed anything I said, they just gave their opinions. I have given some opinions today that you don't like, about my concerns about Immigration and why I think we have too many here, so of course people like you will deem me to be a racist. People that know me, my family and friends, would disagree. But they are only opinions and I don't think anyone on here is going to lose any sleep over any of this.

You have been asked numerous times this evening what your concerns are around immigration. You haven't answered once (I've noticed all your questions have been answered though)

There are a few posters on here that have concerns around immigration, but they don't all get accused of being racist because they put their thoughts and opinions across rationally.

I'll bite and try again. What are your concerns around immigration?

 

[Tony Towner]

No one destroyed anything I said, they just gave their opinions. I have given some opinions today that you don't like, about my concerns about Immigration and why I think we have too many here, so of course people like you will deem me to be a racist. People that know me, my family and friends, would disagree. But they are only opinions and I don't think anyone on here is going to lose any sleep over any of this.

Perhaps you should look at your continued use of the word 'white' tonight when hypothesising on the areas in which people live and consider whether that is relevant or applicable to a discussion about EU freedom of movement.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

You literally called me out, I'm not sure how you expected me to respond.

I said you came across as a racist wanker, I stand by that because the general tone of your posts tonight has been horrific. Funnily enough I don't take kindly to having my politics and where I choose to live being wildly insulted out of nowhere kindly either. What exactly did you want me to say to any of your tirade? I do apologise for being left wing and speaking like Niles Crane, they are my foibles.

I asked you a simple question, how would you pigeonhole me based on my background after you pigeonholed people based on location and you responded in an abhorrent way. To take your own analogy, if someone spoke to me that way in a pub then let's just say I would not be happy.

 

[ProgWolf]

Perhaps you should look at your continued use of the word 'white' tonight when hypothesising on the areas in which people live and consider whether that is relevant or applicable to a discussion about EU freedom of movement.

The word 'white' was used many times in the media after the Referendum result. Apparently a large percentage of white people who did not go into further education were more likely to vote to Leave. Large number of white people have left London over the last 10-15 years because of their concerns over Immigration. Are they racist for doing that or am I racist for pointing it out ?

I stand by my comments on which areas people decide to live in. If they can afford to, middle class white people prefer to buy property in an area where there a lots of other middle class white people. Do birds of a feather still not stick together then, however uncomfortable that may make us feel, is it not still true ? I still don't see how that is racist. In my experience it's just how things are. After all these years, each ethnic group still stick together instead of all races being thinly distributed throughout the whole of the country. I'm not saying it's wrong or right, it's just how things are.

But please humour me TT as I still don't get it. In your opinion, what is the most racist thing I have said tonight ?

 

[ProgWolf]

You literally called me out, I'm not sure how you expected me to respond.

I said you came across as a racist wanker, I stand by that because the general tone of your posts tonight has been horrific. Funnily enough I don't take kindly to having my politics and where I choose to live being wildly insulted out of nowhere kindly either. What exactly did you want me to say to any of your tirade? I do apologise for being left wing and speaking like Niles Crane, they are my foibles.

I asked you a simple question, how would you pigeonhole me based on my background after you pigeonholed people based on location and you responded in an abhorrent way. To take your own analogy, if someone spoke to me that way in a pub then let's just say I would not be happy.

You said I came across as a racist wanker. Can you not understand how offensive I found that ? How am I supposed to react to that ?

I was trying to use the example of where you live to illustrate that, given the choice, we still tend to stay within our ethnic groups, that's all. I can understand now why it annoyed you so much and if that's the case, then of course I apologise. Looking back, our other posts tonight have been akin to a couple of childish, macho cavemen, so I apologise for that too. But as our views on certain things differ so much, I need to know which comment of mine tonight on Immigration, you found the most 'horrific' ? Honestly. I was just giving my opinions and I am genuinely surprised that you use that word.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Well I think this is a pretty horrendous thing to say.

If you love Immigration and everything that goes with it, why don't you move to an area with a high immigrant population and embrace the wonderful diversity that we are so enriched with ? There are plenty of areas like that in and around the West Midlands but you choose not to live in any of them. No, for some reason you prefer to stay in South Staffs.

Why don't we all stick to our own, eh? That's terrible. There is at least one person on here in a mixed race marriage, probably more. Then you're telling me I can't have an opinion on immigration because I live in the whitest, most Tory area in the West Midlands. Guilty as charged on the location but I can't be held responsible for how all these unconnected people vote just because I live here, I haven't always lived here, I've lived in Labour-supporting areas, do you think the Fallowfield/Rusholme areas of Manchester are comparable with South Staffs because I used to live there too? I'm sorry if I am too middle class for you but again, I don't think I am even that as I don't earn enough money. Do you really think you have the right to pigeonhole people? I am many things. I am a football fan, I am a socialist (although many socialists will decry me for not properly engaging in the cause), I am a linguist, I am a writer, I am a pacifist...I could go on. You can't just put me in a box and say "well that's what you are so that's what you believe".

When someone tells me to "say it to my face" and offer to meet me before a game then I do perceive that to be a threat. Well to add to the "I am" file, I'm not someone who's intimidated by that because I can look after myself. I'm not looking for trouble but if someone has a go then they want to expect it back 100x over. If you didn't mean it in that way then let's say no more about it.

I must stress I said that you "came across" that way. I'm sure in the cold light of day if you read some of it back you'll wince a touch. Whether you are a racist or not is not really my concern, but if you don't want that suspicion to form then I'd have a bit of a think about how you post. Shame because until tonight I thought you were ok and I had no idea you had a deep seated hatred for my extreme left wing politics (I'm still not sure what this is based on).

 

[ProgWolf]

Well I think this is a pretty horrendous thing to say.



Why don't we all stick to our own, eh? That's terrible. There is at least one person on here in a mixed race marriage, probably more. Then you're telling me I can't have an opinion on immigration because I live in the whitest, most Tory area in the West Midlands. Guilty as charged on the location but I can't be held responsible for how all these unconnected people vote just because I live here, I haven't always lived here, I've lived in Labour-supporting areas, do you think the Fallowfield/Rusholme areas of Manchester are comparable with South Staffs because I used to live there too? I'm sorry if I am too middle class for you but again, I don't think I am even that as I don't earn enough money. Do you really think you have the right to pigeonhole people? I am many things. I am a football fan, I am a socialist (although many socialists will decry me for not properly engaging in the cause), I am a linguist, I am a writer, I am a pacifist...I could go on. You can't just put me in a box and say "well that's what you are so that's what you believe".

When someone tells me to "say it to my face" and offer to meet me before a game then I do perceive that to be a threat. Well to add to the "I am" file, I'm not someone who's intimidated by that because I can look after myself. I'm not looking for trouble but if someone has a go then they want to expect it back 100x over. If you didn't mean it in that way then let's say no more about it.

I must stress I said that you "came across" that way. I'm sure in the cold light of day if you read some of it back you'll wince a touch. Whether you are a racist or not is not really my concern, but if you don't want that suspicion to form then I'd have a bit of a think about how you post. Shame because until tonight I thought you were ok and I had no idea you had a deep seated hatred for my extreme left wing politics (I'm still not sure what this is based on).

Deutsch Wolf, I have never thought of myself as a racist, but it felt like that was the 'box' you were putting me in and I over-reacted and again, I would like to apologise for that. I really don't have a deep seated hatred towards you or your views. Interesting that you say before tonight, you "thought I was ok". Well please hold that thought for a few weeks more and then let me know what you think. You describe yourself as "a football fan, a socialist, a linguist, a writer, a pacifist" To that I would add that I'm also a Wolves supporter, a Husband, a Father, a Grandfather and definitely more of a UK Socialist than anything else. I don't want to be judged on some irrational posts in one night and I'm sure you are right, that I will wince when I read back some of the comments, I'm wincing now ! I will take a sedative before I come on here next time. Maybe we are all guilty of being too judgemental at times. It's easy, but wrong to judge someone on a few ill-worded comments that can't be unsaid. Anyway, I hope there are no hard feelings.

 

[leedswolf]

Back on topic. I note that the UK Institute of Occupational Safety & Health met with other European OSH representatives in Brussels on 23 February. It would appear that certainly as OSH is concerned that there will still be pan European exchange of information and policy making post Brexit.