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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

Visage said:
It's not your money. There's no pot with your name on it.

If there were then it's only fair that you own part of the debt too, right?
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It is my money. I see it come out of my income every month in a column called tax. I will also take liability for any debt incurred between 1980 when I started work and now even if I have not caused it. But as it has been so eloquently put by others on different threads the debt is irrelevant so whilke its not on my payslip its not my concern. The govt is responsible for that and if they choose to reduce it then its their political choice not mine
 
Cyber-_-man said:
It is my money. I see it come out of my income every month in a column called tax. I will also take liability for any debt incurred between 1980 when I started work and now even if I have not caused it. But as it has been so eloquently put by others on different threads the debt is irrelevant so whilke its not on my payslip its not my concern. The govt is responsible for that and if they choose to reduce it then its their political choice not mine
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That column called tax pays for the scratchcards and the debt - an individual choice and a political choice and as you so eloquently put it...not your choice. If you are going to accept that the debt is irrelevant then so is the scratchcard. If £20 on scratchcards harms your moral sensitivities I have only one piece of advice. Don't ever, ever, leave the house. The outside world must be akin to the darkest reaches of Hades Pit for you.
 
So Long Architect said:
Cyber, I'm struggling to understand why you're not at least as angry about tax fraudsters, who cost the public purse so much more? Is it because they're not so apparently visible? I say apparently because you've offered no evidence that the characters in your anecdote were doing anything but spending money they were legally entitled to in a manner you disapprove of.
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Tax fraud is difficult to make a judgement on unless you know the whole circumstances.
 
Trips said:
Firstly, the use of "career choice" is an extremely ignorant and prejudiced view of things. And I never said anything about her being an "accidental" mother of 3.

Your example of the father earning £25k on top of his £12k is a nice theory but in practice, but this will not be the case for everybody. Also, there are plenty of cases of father's not contributing to their children's upbringing and mothers having to do it alone.

And what about the "career choice" mother of 3 who's partner has passed away? Or the "career choice" mother of 3 who had a successful career whilst making the choice to raise children alone, who suddenly finds herself out of work?

Your theory of "You will be getting 25% of father's net income" doesn't work for a lot of cases.

I'm not opposed entirely to the idea of a national income, but I don't feel a blanket £12k (or whatever amount) is the way forward.
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No sorry doesn't work like that from or with the CSA. They set out what you play and you pay it. If not you get it taken from your wages. I get marriages don't always work. I am on number 3 with 4 kids and have been the single parent. At no stage was I better off giving up work and going on benefits. So I do have some experience of both sides. I don't see that therefore as arrogant. I created 4 kids. I should either maintain them our look after them end of. If I didnt want kids, get the snip. So I did to prevent Happy accidents.

Here's the calculator. It shows 500 a week to the mother on my scenario oif 12 k universal income and 25k income for the father of 3 kids. So she is on 2k maintenance and 1k universal every month and no benefits from the state. No brainer

https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-child-maintenance

With regard to being a widow well in the vast majority of cases insurance payout of some sorts be it pension or covering a mortgage would come into play. A small percentage would meet your really really unlucky criteria
 
The Saturday Boy said:
That column called tax pays for the scratchcards and the debt - an individual choice and a political choice and as you so eloquently put it...not your choice. If you are going to accept that the debt is irrelevant then so is the scratchcard. If £20 on scratchcards harms your moral sensitivities I have only one piece of advice. Don't ever, ever, leave the house. The outside world must be akin to the darkest reaches of Hades Pit for you.
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With respect and in the nicest possible way fuck off! When the govt give me a choice of what my taxes are spent on I will accept it. Until then I reserve my right to whinge moan and bitch about broken systems as much as I like! That's why I vote the way I do. Hopoefully, even though you don't agree, you can see why so many voted brexit if they have concerns. Shame so many politicians failed to see it.
 
I am still confused why you believe you have the right to tell other people how to spend their income, wherever it may have come from.
 
What's brexit got to do with single mothers buying scratch cards...?
 
Cyber-_-man said:
No sorry doesn't work like that from or with the CSA. They set out what you play and you pay it. If not you get it taken from your wages. I get marriages don't always work. I am on number 3 with 4 kids and have been the single parent. At no stage was I better off giving up work and going on benefits. So I do have some experience of both sides. I don't see that therefore as arrogant. I created 4 kids. I should either maintain them our look after them end of. If I didnt want kids, get the snip. So I did to prevent Happy accidents.

Here's the calculator. It shows 500 a week to the mother on my scenario oif 12 k universal income and 25k income for the father of 3 kids. So she is on 2k maintenance and 1k universal every month and no benefits from the state. No brainer

https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-child-maintenance
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I didn't call you arrogant, I said your view on single parenting as a "career choice" was ignorant.

My point is whether a system is correct when we can give an 18 year old straight out of school the same income/benefit as a single mother of 3.

In the example you've have provided of the father on £25k, yes I can see how that works. But you have ignored my point on single parents whose partner has passed away, or maybe they don't earn this £25k, or maybe the CSA hasn't tracked them down after they have left the parent. In an ideal world it would all work swimmingly like your example, but that isn't the way of the world.
 
Trips said:
I didn't call you arrogant, I said your view on single parenting as a "career choice" was ignorant.

My point is whether a system is correct when we can give an 18 year old straight out of school the same income/benefit as a single mother of 3.

In the example you've have provided of the father on £25k, yes I can see how that works. But you have ignored my point on single parents whose partner has passed away, or maybe they don't earn this £25k, or maybe the CSA hasn't tracked them down after they have left the parent. In an ideal world it would all work swimmingly like your example, but that isn't the way of the world.
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See why edit
 
Cyber-_-man said:
With respect and in the nicest possible way $#@! off! When the govt give me a choice of what my taxes are spent on I will accept it. Until then I reserve my right to whinge moan and bitch about broken systems as much as I like! That's why I vote the way I do. Hopoefully, even though you don't agree, you can see why so many voted brexit if they have concerns. Shame so many politicians failed to see it.
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See the posts above. You can whinge and moan about broken systems all you like - and we might disagree on the solutions but agree on the problem. You aren't being criticised for concerns about the system, it's the way you have dehumanised people you actually know to make a point.
 
Although I guess the amounts in the grand scheme of things are insignificant, I guess in a time where working families are struggling to make ends meet, people are having money removed that they need, school's losing funding, hospitals getting closed, then people will question those that are using money they are given to spend on luxuries.

And yes Tredman it should probably be on the May thread.
 
What the actual fuck?

a) you have no idea what these people are doing outside the queue
b) its a fucking scratchcard, they are hardly blowing the value of the crown jewels
c) its a fucking disgrace that you think you have the right to stick your beak in and make a judgement
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
What the actual $#@!?

a) you have no idea what these people are doing outside the queue
b) its a $#@!ing scratchcard, they are hardly blowing the value of the crown jewels
c) its a $#@!ing disgrace that you think you have the right to stick your beak in and make a judgement
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That is more like the real Paddy!

Hhhaha
 
Of course. But unless your concerns are based on facts then you can't complain at being placed in the same basket as those who are scared of Martians.
 
ProgWolf said:
Are we allowed to be 'just a bit concerned' about Immigration, if it's ok with you and your mates ?
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Why would it bother you what Leavers thought, you won didn't you? Now time for your plan to work....you do have a plan don't you?

And why does immigration bother you? And try not to repeat ad nauseum the horse shit THM spouts.
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
I am still confused why you believe you have the right to tell other people how to spend their income, wherever it may have come from.
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To be fair to Cyber though, I do not think you can tell people how to spend their money, but on the same token you cannot surely have sympathy for people who spend their money unwisely ? Would you not consider it unwise to buy cigerettes on the way to the foodbank ?
 
Visage said:
Of course. But unless your concerns are based on facts then you can't complain at being placed in the same basket as those who are scared of Martians.
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Whose facts ? Depending on who or what you believe, we could both disprove each others 'facts' as we see them, so I can just as easily put you in a basket of idiots couldn't I ? If you live in White Middle Class leafy suburbia then like the Martians, maybe it's people like them who live on a different planet, as Immigration has no negative effect on their lives whatsoever. Of course, all the rest are just a load of racist wank*rs aren't they ?
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
What the actual fuck?

a) you have no idea what these people are doing outside the queue
b) its a fucking scratchcard, they are hardly blowing the value of the crown jewels
c) its a fucking disgrace that you think you have the right to stick your beak in and make a judgement
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Which scratchcard was it though ?
 
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