REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Trips]

But I consider this to be the sort of central social idea that could be a vote winner for labour or lib dems just to offer something completely different. Imagine apprentices currently getting 150 a week while training for three or 4 years and then getting a 12 k ui to underpin it. They would pay just 20% tax on 7600 and nothing on ui of 12k so total income approaching 19'6 k they would see 1800 a month.

It is a good idea, clear plan of what to do and where we would get the money from. As Johnny has said above though it would lead to inflation. Not just unscrupulous businesses, but all businesses will raise prices. I think DW said yesterday that JSA amounts to around £3600 a year (apologies if that's incorrect), if we drive that up by almost 3 times as much, businesses will naturally put their prices up to reflect it.

I'm trying to put together an idea I had that is similar to UI, but more focussed on government paying for (or contributing toward) everyone's rent/mortgage, and utilities such as gas, electric and water and then giving them a very basic, modest UI to cover basic food costs. This way we could ensure that people have a roof over their head, warmth, running water and food on the table. I think giving everyone £12k to do as they please with could cause issues of what do we do when people waste it, blow it all etc...

 

[Penk Wolf]

I assume I don't understand the last 50 or so posts because it seems like people are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Just on jobs and skills shortage we've placed this advert and not had a single person apply. We are looking to fill four positions, where do we go from here?

 

[lemonjelly]

I'd be worried if I worked in the car manufacturing inustry right now. The recent takeover, alongside BMW inferring it won't build electric cars in the UK because of brexit is disconcerting.

 

[thehistorymakers]

I have no idea what you are on about Papper.

I know you didn't mean that post to be funny, but it made me chuckle.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

The Lords doing the job that the Commons haven't got the guts for yet again, they want Parliament to have a proper meaningful say on the final deal.

 

[Trips]

Government defeated on Lords amendment to have a vote in both houses on terms of the deal to leave EU.

Good.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

It is a good idea, clear plan of what to do and where we would get the money from. As Johnny has said above though it would lead to inflation. Not just unscrupulous businesses, but all businesses will raise prices. I think DW said yesterday that JSA amounts to around £3600 a year (apologies if that's incorrect), if we drive that up by almost 3 times as much, businesses will naturally put their prices up to reflect it.

I'm trying to put together an idea I had that is similar to UI, but more focussed on government paying for (or contributing toward) everyone's rent/mortgage, and utilities such as gas, electric and water and then giving them a very basic, modest UI to cover basic food costs. This way we could ensure that people have a roof over their head, warmth, running water and food on the table. I think giving everyone £12k to do as they please with could cause issues of what do we do when people waste it, blow it all etc...

Probably right that inflation would rise but surely there could be some punitive punishments or did incentives to keep prices down. There is so much competition and there are already rules for combating price fixing in industries so it may not be as big a problem. The main issue is private rental of property. That would need rent caps introduced to stop hikes but how that's done is beyond my pay grade

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Government defeated on Lords amendment to have a vote in both houses on terms of the deal to leave EU.

Good.

I am (obviously) delighted at this. However, I assume that Theresa and co will just invoke the parliament act to get it through. Could be an interesting constitutional crisis though.

 

[thehistorymakers]

The Lords doing the job that the Commons haven't got the guts for yet again, they want Parliament to have a proper meaningful say on the final deal.

No, they want to scupper Brexit by any means and show contempt for the electorate and the supremacy of the Commons.
You can't go in to negotiations with the EU, who would love for us not to leave, with a vote at the end of negotiations to see if the ideal is acceptable. It is saying to the EU, give us the worse deal possible, play hard with us and give us something so bad that it won't be accepted by the majority of MP'S. It is a preposterous idea.
The Commons, then the people, then the Commons has seen fit to pass this. 9 Liberal MP, s with over 100 liberal peer's show that the Lords as it is, is undemocratic and out of touch with the electorate.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I actually see your point of view there THM. I know, please don't have heart failure!

You are quite right that this puts a card into the hand of Francois Hollande and co to push really hard. However, we have to flip that a bit and imagine that our government is also going to want to play ridiculous levels of hardball. I have no idea what will happen.

 

[leedswolf]

The perils of a sovereign parliament.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Aye - that's why we have two houses I guess

 

[thehistorymakers]

I actually see your point of view there THM. I know, please don't have heart failure!

You are quite right that this puts a card into the hand of Francois Hollande and co to push really hard. However, we have to flip that a bit and imagine that our government is also going to want to play ridiculous levels of hardball. I have no idea what will happen.

It is an open invitation for the EU to fuck us over, with the objective of stopping Brexit. The Commons has supremacy and will use it for this one. I will be happy with an early agreement for EU citizens living in the UK, but tonight's vote has to be overturned.

 

[thehistorymakers]

The perils of a sovereign parliament.

Luckily the Commons has Supremacy.

 

[leedswolf]

So nothing to worry about then.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

The Commons might think genuflecting to Theresa May and following her every whim unquestioned is a good idea but I certainly don't.

 

[thehistorymakers]

The Commons might think genuflecting to Theresa May and following her every whim unquestioned is a good idea but I certainly don't.

I wouldn't expect you to Deutsch, but it isn't logical going in to negotiations, with the oppostion ( EU) knowing if they are very hard with us in negotiations, that parliament might vote against accepting Brexit. We have to go in to negotiations with strength, not please fuck us over to change our democratic result by default.
It would be very dangerous and devisive for our democracy. If you think things are bad now, imagine the hatred for the EU by many UK citizens if that happened.
I believe MP'S in the Commons have been decent and respected the democratic result. Many have gone against their personal preferences to back the legitimate result of the referendum.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

I actually see your point of view there THM. I know, please don't have heart failure!

You are quite right that this puts a card into the hand of Francois Hollande and co to push really hard. However, we have to flip that a bit and imagine that our government is also going to want to play ridiculous levels of hardball. I have no idea what will happen.

Alternatively, The EU know that they have to do a deal that will be acceptable to the UK parliament and can be convinced that they need to give a bit more because "there's no way it will get through parliament".

The single biggest domestic decision in a generation, it isn't democratic to bypass parliament and you have to be a conspiracy theorist to believe this is just about scuppering BREXIT.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

No, they want to scupper Brexit by any means and show contempt for the electorate and the supremacy of the Commons.

Bollocks.

Nobody is trying to scupper anything. As much as I hate it Brexit is happening. Nobody is trying to stop it, just making sure it's done properly (something our government seems incapable of).

I'm sure the anti-EU press will be shouting about the WILL OF THE PEOPLE again tomorrow though.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Of course they will. Our dear friends at the Express and Mail will shout for ever.