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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

Papper said:
EU says we cannot retain access to the single market without freedom of movement.

As we import more from the EU than export the threat seems more damaging to them than us ..

Wonder what VW and BMW think ..
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They will play hard with us to frighten off other potential countries leaving, in the future.
 
thehistorymakers said:
They tried their hardest.:disco:
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I don't think they did actually. Looks to me like the actual voting was seen to be fair and above board, even if the campaign was less than snow-white from both sides.

That pen thing though....

Good Lord.
 
Papper said:
EU says we cannot retain access to the single market without freedom of movement.

As we import more from the EU than export the threat seems more damaging to them than us ..

Wonder what VW and BMW think ..
Click to expand...

BMW would simply route cars through Cowley for finishing to get round it you would think.
 
thehistorymakers said:
They will play hard with us to frighten off other potential countries leaving, in the future.
Click to expand...

And they can keep their Tulips too !

In all seriousness the EU and it's version of ' Continental Thatcherism ' ( beautiful quote by Dave Nellist ) has been scuppered and they have a big hole in their accounts (which probably haven't been audited ). Too much cock waving going on at the moment.
 
If you look at the EU as an entity, how well do people think it's functioning? Obviously, some people think it was a good thing for the UK and others disagree, but looking at all the problems in the Mediterranean countries, was the EU functioning well, or was it failing?
 
Neither. It wasn't functioning well, but it wasn't a dead duck either.

It needed reform. It still does.
 
energy position should be interesting now. i can't see hinkley happening with edf involved, maybe all out with the chinese, which will be considered dubious by many.

other areas relate to exchange rates and cost of borrowing (given AAA loss). we're still reliant on imported gas and of course system/grid upgrades will be imported kit so a currency deval whilst helping exports will hurt.
 
The EU has a dichotomy to resolve between the Euozone countries and those outside it - need for greater fiscal centralistion/federation for those inside if the Euro is to have a stable future which some inside it won't like and those outside will be reluctant to accept. Danger of a 2 tier EU or collapse of the Euro/some countries have to leave it and revert to national currencies.

As to the future then Cyber's visa suggestions are reasonable, free movement was not the main issue for me - there are probably just about as many UK nationals working in Europe as there are EU nationals working here so supect it is fairly neutral as regards population levels.. Non working individuals will need to be able to show adequate income/assets to support themselves without recourse to the state (though I would be surprised if many UK pensioners who are reliant on State top to their pensions have ever comtemplated a move to Spain or France anyway).

On the trade issue have no problem with the free movement (subject to the above) - though payment into the EU budget (which I believe Norway have to do) would not be acceptable. They sell a lot to us as do we to them. If they want payment to allow us to remain within the EU free trade area then we should insist on the same payment to allow them the same level of access into the UK market. Their concern re this may be that they are going to have to find the net UK payment from somewhere else once we are fully out or cut the EU budget accordingly - neither scenario will be that enticing for them.
 
They simply won't agree to that Parkin. We will have to pay in to get access. That is the way it will be. And yes, they will take pain themselves to ensure we get pain. They have played total hard ball with the Swiss. And if they are nice to use then you can bet Norway will be demanding the same.

No matter how you dress it, we are not in that strong a bargaining position.
 
I understand it is complex and I understand the posturing from all sides in the aftermath but stale mate or a pissing contest solves nothing and ultimately hurts everyone. I am longing to hear a leader with the clout to do something say what do all sides need to do to come out with something acceptable all round! After all if this continues everyone loses.The first British leader to do and say that effectively will be followed.
 
Cyber-_-man said:
I understand it is complex and I understand the posturing from all sides in the aftermath but stale mate or a pissing contest solves nothing and ultimately hurts everyone. I am longing to hear a leader with the clout to do something say what do all sides need to do to come out with something acceptable all round! After all if this continues everyone loses.The first British leader to do and say that effectively will be followed.
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Unfortunately (unless you have a name that could be suggested) I don't see anyone of the current crop able to fill that criteria
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
They simply won't agree to that Parkin. We will have to pay in to get access. That is the way it will be. And yes, they will take pain themselves to ensure we get pain. They have played total hard ball with the Swiss. And if they are nice to use then you can bet Norway will be demanding the same.

No matter how you dress it, we are not in that strong a bargaining position.
Click to expand...

They may well not, but giving themselves pain to punish the UK does them no favours either.

Suspect Norway's trading position vis-a-vis the EU is different from ours
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
They simply won't agree to that Parkin. We will have to pay in to get access. That is the way it will be. And yes, they will take pain themselves to ensure we get pain. They have played total hard ball with the Swiss. And if they are nice to use then you can bet Norway will be demanding the same.

No matter how you dress it, we are not in that strong a bargaining position.
Click to expand...

I think we could be if we get the Swiss and Norweigans on our side. I think at this point we need allies and the Euro is in the toilet whereas the Norweigan Kroner, Swiss Franc and to a certain extent Sterling is not. That leaves all 3 in a decent position. Essentially if the other 2 pull their deals the EU falls apart.
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
They simply won't agree to that Parkin. We will have to pay in to get access. That is the way it will be. And yes, they will take pain themselves to ensure we get pain. They have played total hard ball with the Swiss. And if they are nice to use then you can bet Norway will be demanding the same.

No matter how you dress it, we are not in that strong a bargaining position.
Click to expand...

If they are nice to us they will get fucked over politically by their own far right who will see Britain getting an easy ride and will say to the electorate, why not us too?

Given the choice between political suicide and potential economic difficulty (which they could blame on Britain in any case) I'm sure everyone can see full well which they will lean.
 
Johnny75 said:
I think we could be if we get the Swiss and Norweigans on our side. I think at this point we need allies and the Euro is in the toilet whereas the Norweigan Kroner, Swiss Franc and to a certain extent Sterling is not. That leaves all 3 in a decent position. Essentially if the other 2 pull their deals the EU falls apart.
Click to expand...

The Swiss are being given the cold shoulder anyway. Not sure what good they will do for you.
 
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