REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Papper]

There are dozens, nay hundreds or even thousands of fringe movements across the country at any given time. However you don't start putting them all at the front and centre of Government policy as that would be ludicrous.

The likes of Cash, Redwood, Bone etc were just joke figures for years.

1975

https://youtu.be/gHIidBgwyTA

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Anyone able to vote in both 1975 and 2016 would be at least 62 now.

So this is pretty thin stuff, I know the Tory membership might be all on the verge of getting a birthday card from the Queen and able to foist awful Prime Ministers on us, but they shouldn't be setting the entirety of both domestic and foreign policy.

Anyway, the Eurosceptic lot lost in 1975. They should respect democracy and get over it.

 

[Papper]

Anyone able to vote in both 1975 and 2016 would be at least 62 now.

So this is pretty thin stuff, I know the Tory membership might be all on the verge of getting a birthday card from the Queen and able to foist awful Prime Ministers on us, but they shouldn't be setting the entirety of both domestic and foreign policy.

Anyway, the Eurosceptic lot lost in 1975. They should respect democracy and get over it.

Just highlighting a certain sentiment that has existed for decades amongst more than a handful of people.

 

[leedswolf]

Anyone able to vote in both 1975 and 2016 would be at least 62 now.

So this is pretty thin stuff, I know the Tory membership might be all on the verge of getting a birthday card from the Queen and able to foist awful Prime Ministers on us, but they shouldn't be setting the entirety of both domestic and foreign policy.

Anyway, the Eurosceptic lot lost in 1975. They should respect democracy and get over it.

I won't be getting a telegram from the Queen...

 

[Johnny75]

You are saying the people of this country should not have been allowed to vote on leaving the EU which is about the same. Well we did and the vote was clear. The reason being you disgree and want to reverse the outcome. Fair enough, but By doing so you are being undemocratic ... and when this gets questioned you get the likes of Johnny who first accuses me of smoking crack and then attempts to rewrite history to suit his agenda.

Rewritten history? What are you on about?

You've asserted something. I asked for proof. You have said it was on the ballot paper. It wasn't.

I don't know what else to say other than you're flat out wrong.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Anyone able to vote in both 1975 and 2016 would be at least 62 now.

So this is pretty thin stuff, I know the Tory membership might be all on the verge of getting a birthday card from the Queen and able to foist awful Prime Ministers on us, but they shouldn't be setting the entirety of both domestic and foreign policy.

Anyway, the Eurosceptic lot lost in 1975. They should respect democracy and get over it.

The eec and the eu are like comparing wolves 2019 with wolves 1984. The are so far removed in my view

 

[lemonjelly]

Donald Tusk
‏
Verified account

@eucopresident
1h1 hour ago
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To my British friends,

The EU27 has formally adopted the extension. It may be the last one. Please make the best use of this time.

I also want to say goodbye to you as my mission here is coming to an end. I will keep my fingers crossed for you.

 

[Kenny]

Please make the best use of this time.

.

An election & a Christmas break should take up the majority of the time.

Going No Deal at the end of Jan

 

[The Saturday Boy]

I suppose herein lies my anarchist persuasions. First step, total accountable through Westminster then proven parties may emerge. But then again I was told a while back that MP's don't serve us they make decisions on our behalf - some will always be more equal than others eh ...

Representative democracy. Look it up.

Democracy vests power in the people but an election then transfers power from the voters to a particular group of politicians so that the British public do not then directly take political decisions

 

[lemonjelly]

Tusks tweet suggests to me the lib dems will campaign on a revoke article 50 premise. The SNP and Plaid will do likewise. With Caroline Lucas, they could end up as kingmakers. One would suspect they'll be pretty united in their red lines when negotiating.

Could result in hung parliament, or minority government?

 

[AndyWolves]

Came across this doozy from JRM

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/n...-referendum-would-overturn-brexit-vote/02/09/

He thinks the public would vote the other way in a referendum today but is carrying in with Brexit. So he thinks the majority want to remain but is going ahead with Brexit

 

[jdrodrigues]

Democracy is the will of the people, sure. But a change this massive, which affects every fabric of a nation and its people should not be hinged on the decision of a slim majority. A 52/48 majority could easily be 48/52 on the next day. This is why some decisions, such as scheduling early elections, may only be taken by majorities of 2/3 or 4/5.

Not every change can be made by a simple majority, nor should it. And especially not this one.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Trouble is, the referendum was a binary question. Yes or No. So it pretty much had to be simple majority.

 

[jdrodrigues]

Trouble is, the referendum was a binary question. Yes or No. So it pretty much had to be simple majority.

Every decision by a ruling body is yes/no, in the end. In any vote to approve any bit of legislation there are only three options: Yes, no or abstain.

As such, being yes/no doesn't exclude qualified majorities. Given the consequences of leaving a system as unique as the EU, requesting a 66% majority (2/3) or a 75% majority (3/4) would have been more adequate, imho.

Additionally, it wasn't binding at all, iirc.

For example, Portugal has a written Constitution, which reigns as the surpreme law of our country. Any change to the Constitution must be approved by a qualified majority of 66%, given the importance of the law and all the consequences a simple change can have. And I do think leaving the EU would qualify for these requirements as it is ingrained in our Constitution that we are members of the EU.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Without any of this told you so bollocks, so far I am not surprised by anything under Boris. A GE was his aim full stop. Labour and the Lib Dem’s don’t have enough to beat Boris and Brexit without a deal with the snp and even then I think that the blues have it. We can’t say we weren’t warned.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I think a majority for either of the two main parties is looking pretty unlikely personally. Lib Dems are going to hoover lots of remain seats. SNP will totally dominate Scotland.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Yeah, as we briefly went through earlier:

- Let's be charitable and say all the seats from the whipless Tories stay Tory (either with the current MP, whip reinstated, or someone else in a blue rosette). So puts them back at their old majority of er, 0 from a few weeks ago.

- But you've lost 10 DUP seats propping you up, they're gone. Totally out of the equation now in terms of helping the Tories govern. If another Northern Irish party wins them, they aren't helping either. -10

- 16 seats in Scotland. Let's be charitable once more and say they only lose 10. -20

- 21 seats in London. Some will cling on, plenty of others won't. Split it halfway again and call it another 10. -30

- Let's grant the Lib Dems a conservative (no pun intended) 10 seats across the South of England which they are going to aggressively target. -40

Right, so they need to hold every single non-London/Scots marginal that they currently have AND pick up *at least* 40 seats in areas where they don't have a great history. This is to get a majority of....0.

Talk of a thumping Johnson majority is way off the scale, won't happen.

 

[jdrodrigues]

Yeah, as we briefly went through earlier:

- Let's be charitable and say all the seats from the whipless Tories stay Tory (either with the current MP, whip reinstated, or someone else in a blue rosette). So puts them back at their old majority of er, 0 from a few weeks ago.

- But you've lost 10 DUP seats propping you up, they're gone. Totally out of the equation now in terms of helping the Tories govern. If another Northern Irish party wins them, they aren't helping either. -10

- 16 seats in Scotland. Let's be charitable once more and say they only lose 10. -20

- 21 seats in London. Some will cling on, plenty of others won't. Split it halfway again and call it another 10. -30

- Let's grant the Lib Dems a conservative (no pun intended) 10 seats across the South of England which they are going to aggressively target. -40

Right, so they need to hold every single non-London/Scots marginal that they currently have AND pick up *at least* 40 seats in areas where they don't have a great history. This is to get a majority of....0.

Talk of a thumping Johnson majority is way off the scale, won't happen.

I think that we've learnt of never saying never, with this whole charade.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Have you seen the document doing the rounds that is supposedly the Labour plan for how to win?

It surely must be fake, it just has to be.

 

[Kenny]

I'm sticking with Boris walking it for the following reasons

1) People dont care he lies
2) He will blame coward Corbyn for preventing Brexit and people will believe him
3) I have accepted the majority love a shitstorm
4) Hoping I am as shit at predicting politics as I am football.