REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Johnny75]

Then you'd agree your heroes are dangerous as they are far right?

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Initally that was my impression, I can't remember why I first saw something from him but he was made out to be this monster so I wanted to see what the fuss was about. The more I listened the more he made sense.

He is a clinical psychologist and an incredibly intelligent man.

He champions equality more than anyone I have ever heard, but he champions equality of opportunity and is against the manipulation of equality of outcome.

His book - 12 Rules For Life is also very interesting and helped me drag myself out of a very dark place.

I would say if you take solely what the media says about him he is a complete monster, but then most media outlets that report of him have an agenda. He has very strong views but he backs them up with evidence and science, that's why he appeals to me.

So you can take the media view or listen for yourself, I would highly recommend the latter.

From memory that video I was shown started with some complaints about him not complying with a new University protocol for addressing transgender students. He sort of ducked and dived questions, picking up on very specific bits of wording before eventually getting to a sort of conclusion that he had no objection to calling people by whatever title they were comfortable with but just didn't want someone telling him had to do that. As I say, it seemed like someone picking a fight for the sake of it when in reality the thing he was objecting to didn't even make any difference to him.

I don't really have any other knowledge of him beyond that at the moment but whilst very well spoken and clearly adept at putting his thoughts across I can't say I was in any way endeared to him. His thinking that it's better to say whatever you feel, regardless of any offence it may cause, is just the complete mirror of what he's complaining about with political correctness potentially curbing free speech. Surely what you need to overcome these problems is compromise, air your misgivings in a respectful manner rather than just say whatever comes to mind and not give a fuck who it upsets. If you take that approach to the extreme it would be just as bad as his bizarre notion that political correctness is going to turn everyone into clones, bereft of any personality.

I'm not in a position to judge his intellect or qualifications but generally speaking I'd heed a little more caution that just hanging on every word of a 'genius'. He might be a class leading psychologist, I believe that's his main area of study? But I don't see the topic if that interview really as being in that field, he's just talking about social interaction and construct, perhaps some morality in there. Being an expert in one field doesn't necessarily make it so for everything else.

Whilst his book may have helped you on a personal level, and perhaps countless others too, let's not assume he can fix society as a whole too.

If I find time I might watch some more of his stuff but I can't say I'm exactly chomping at the bit to do so.

 

[Siggy]

From memory that video I was shown started with some complaints about him not complying with a new University protocol for addressing transgender students. He sort of ducked and dived questions, picking up on very specific bits of wording before eventually getting to a sort of conclusion that he had no objection to calling people by whatever title they were comfortable with but just didn't want someone telling him had to do that. As I say, it seemed like someone picking a fight for the sake of it when in reality the thing he was objecting to didn't even make any difference to him.

I don't really have any other knowledge of him beyond that at the moment but whilst very well spoken and clearly adept at putting his thoughts across I can't say I was in any way endeared to him. His thinking that it's better to say whatever you feel, regardless of any offence it may cause, is just the complete mirror of what he's complaining about with political correctness potentially curbing free speech. Surely what you need to overcome these problems is compromise, air your misgivings in a respectful manner rather than just say whatever comes to mind and not give a fuck who it upsets. If you take that approach to the extreme it would be just as bad as his bizarre notion that political correctness is going to turn everyone into clones, bereft of any personality.

I'm not in a position to judge his intellect or qualifications but generally speaking I'd heed a little more caution that just hanging on every word of a 'genius'. He might be a class leading psychologist, I believe that's his main area of study? But I don't see the topic if that interview really as being in that field, he's just talking about social interaction and construct, perhaps some morality in there. Being an expert in one field doesn't necessarily make it so for everything else.

Whilst his book may have helped you on a personal level, and perhaps countless others too, let's not assume he can fix society as a whole too.

If I find time I might watch some more of his stuff but I can't say I'm exactly chomping at the bit to do so.

Fair comment. Look yes personally he hit a massive note with me and most of it isn't controversial at all.

Most of the stuff you will see on mainstream is where he's forced to argue, he can do that but his calmer debates are far better for me.

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[Siggy]

Then you'd agree your heroes are dangerous as they are far right?

He's not far right. He argues regularly against the hard right but most of what you will see is him debating feminists.

To be clear from my position I despise the far right equally as I do the hard left. My life changing moment was at the death camps in Poland really it changed everything for me, but I am cautious of not just believing what I am told I like to be sure.

My worry is that I see the far left becoming more acceptable and it worries me.

Look sorry for the half arsed insult. A debate is healthy but it's better for us all me included if we leave emotion out of it.

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[MARKakaJIM]

Fair comment. Look yes personally he hit a massive note with me and most of it isn't controversial at all.

Most of the stuff you will see on mainstream is where he's forced to argue, he can do that but his calmer debates are far better for me.

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If there's any particular pieces you'd consider to show off his genius or anything really insightful I'd appreciate it, rather than try and wade through whatever YouTube throws up.

I can see how he'd resonate to some extent with the lad at work who showed me that video. He's a really clever lad, best performing student they've ever had through the company's apprentice scheme, but he's got a tendency to be a bit of an arse and generally seems quite closed off or anti-social. Think he frequently spends weeks where the only times he leaves the house is for work but he'll spend hours on hours reading up and researching stuff, seemingly with the only goal to then laud it over people at work with all his new found knowledge.

I can see similarities in the way they both talk to people with conviction that borders on condescension for the person other side. I'm not sure they'd truly share much in their actual beliefs although the lad at work might play it that way just to try and be a bit controversial mirroring some of those views.

 

[Siggy]

I will also make a concession that the breaking point poster bothers me a lot. To be honest I had forgotten all about it, so as an argument against I think it's the strongest put forward here.

So another question with a potential general coming up, who the hell do we vote for?

I voted BP in the euros I suppose as a protest vote against politics in general but at my heart I am a labour voter.

But I will not vote for Corbyn and at this moment it is about a tactical vote to keep him out for me.

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[Siggy]

If there's any particular pieces you'd consider to show off his genius or anything really insightful I'd appreciate it, rather than try and wade through whatever YouTube throws up.

I can see how he'd resonate to some extent with the lad at work who showed me that video. He's a really clever lad, best performing student they've ever had through the company's apprentice scheme, but he's got a tendency to be a bit of an arse and generally seems quite closed off or anti-social. Think he frequently spends weeks where the only times he leaves the house is for work but he'll spend hours on hours reading up and researching stuff, seemingly with the only goal to then laud it over people at work with all his new found knowledge.

I can see similarities in the way they both talk to people with conviction that borders on condescension for the person other side. I'm not sure they'd truly share much in their actual beliefs although the lad at work might play it that way just to try and be a bit controversial mirroring some of those views.

Yes would be glad to. I will Wade through and find some good ones tomorrow and PM them to you.

There is so much content on YouTube that I can't blame you for not wanting to go through it all.

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[Tony Towner]

I will also make a concession that the breaking point poster bothers me a lot. To be honest I had forgotten all about it, so as an argument against I think it's the strongest put forward here.

So another question with a potential general coming up, who the hell do we vote for?

I voted BP in the euros I suppose as a protest vote against politics in general but at my heart I am a labour voter.

But I will not vote for Corbyn and at this moment it is about a tactical vote to keep him out for me.

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If your motivation is to keep Corbyn out then in the FPTP system vote for the Party who are the opposition in your constituency, which would be your current Conservative MP.

 

[Siggy]

Which is Mark Garnier. I can't vote for him he promised to oppose building work close to where I live then signed off on it as soon as he got in.

And this is my political problem [emoji24][emoji24]


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[MARKakaJIM]

Which is Mark Garnier. I can't vote for him he promised to oppose building work close to where I live then signed off on it as soon as he got in.

And this is my political problem [emoji24][emoji24]


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Don't think he's got any input on planning permission to be honest, he's certainly not on the planning committee.

His promise of opposing any work might not have been any more than making an objection to the planning application just as any other local resident, not sure his position gives him any more sway than that.

 

[Siggy]

Don't think he's got any input on planning permission to be honest, he's certainly not on the planning committee.

His promise of opposing any work might not have been any more than making an objection to the planning application just as any other local resident, not sure his position gives him any more sway than that.

Quite possibly I'm not really sure how it works but it was quite a big deal round here. He said he was totally against it then changed his mind apparently.

Could falling foul of my own criticisms here.

If push comes to shove I really don't know I guess it would have to be him, libs or BP.

I know the lib guy real well actually.

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[visage]

And it's unbelievably stupid comments like this that make it not worthwhile discussing pretty much anything with lefties.

The guy lectured for Harvard!! He is a world leading scientist but yeah sure Visage of The Wolves Forum knows better.

The vast majority of his work I am sure you would agree with but because you are trapped in a left wing bubble you wont engage.

It's a real shame but I am not surprised in the slightest.


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I'm quite comfortable with my intellect, thanks.

Meanwhile - https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/is-jordan-peterson-the-stupid-mans-smart-person/

 

[Siggy]

I'm quite comfortable with my intellect, thanks.

Meanwhile - https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/is-jordan-peterson-the-stupid-mans-smart-person/

Its quite a piece of work ill give it that, so will you take the time to look into this or just take the article at face value? Tabatha Southey is in interesting character ill give her that.

Anyway there is a twitter thread you can follow on that should you so be interested including one of his lectures, it also has some links to other articles against him.

https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/931605417402146816?lang=en

Or a link to the lecture he posted if you don't want to do Twitter;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLp7vWB0TeY&t=581s

I would also recommend having a look into a young lady called Lindsay Shepherd who got caught up in this when things turned nasty, I would be interested to know if you think the treatment towards her was fair? In short to save you time, she was a former lefty, agreed with something JP said and lets just say things went bad for her really quickly.

Sorry one more thing, here's another author discussing in quite some detail that article from the defence of Jordan Peterson;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfXTMroWM3A

 

[Tredman]

It does make me laugh how many well-off, well educated, priviledged older men believe they are being victimised, discriminated against and victims of racism.

 

[SLA]

I'm amused by the idea that the media is somehow left leaning. There's a reason why the only place us lefties put up links from is the Guardian - it's because it's pretty much the only mainstream outlet (in this country) with that perspective. (no-one reads the Indy).

 

[visage]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48533790

Project Fear....

 

[Kenny]

Leader of the Brexit Party Nigel Farage has delivered a letter to Prime Minister Theresa May demanding his party is involved in the Government's Brexit negotiations

Good luck with that.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Why is he delivering it to her (leaving aside for a second why she would listen to him)?

Like going up to Wenger on the final day of 2017/18 and saying "Hi Arsène, please sign all these players on this list for Arsenal, thx x"

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

And also...

He wants a No Deal exit based on WTO terms. Yo Nige, that means there are no negotiations to be had. Unless of course you're contradicting the one policy you have, you know the one that millions of people voted for a couple of weeks ago. I'd hate to think you were betraying ra peepul.

 

[Kenny]

Well since he basically said things such a Norwegian type deal is a good idea during his campaigning I guess he is flipping back to that idea OR he just needs to do things that ensure the BBC and co give him plenty of airtime