REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[visage]

I agree with most of that, however Spain and the EU didn't need to be antagonistic in the first place.

If the roles were reversed we'd be 'standing up for British intetests'.

Blatant double standards.

 

[visage]

The thing is, this is ONE country. We need to placate 27.

And as D-day approaches two years from now their leverage will only increase.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

And only one issue

Spain are likely to have some pretty strong feelings about us trying to renegotiate fisheries too.

 

[Dinowolf]

The thing is, this is ONE country. We need to placate 27.

And as D-day approaches two years from now their leverage will only increase.

You only need to 'placate' someone if they are angry or hostile and those terms hardly meet the EU's own criteria on dealing with their neighbours, set out in Article 8.

 

[Premier Quality]

And only one issue

Spain are likely to have some pretty strong feelings about us trying to renegotiate fisheries too.

That's negotiation though isn't it - we'll have strong feelings on some stuff, they'll have strong feelings on others.

The gib stuff is all a bit daft, as the inhabitants don't want change and shouldn't be forced to. I'm supposed no ones tried to stir up Catalonia jn a tit for tat move though. Would expect it won't be long.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

One of Brexit's rallying cries is "take back control" and it works both ways. Maybe Spain will decide to impose more control
of people from outside the EU? I don't see why Brexit supporters think Spain are being antagonistic on this when Spain is only threatening to do what they want the UK to do.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

To be fair the Spain / Gibraltar border is already VERY VERY closed. I mean you can go through it obviously, but it is hugely policed and checked rigorously. Something to do with 20 cigarettes costing about a quid in Gibraltar I suspect.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

To be fair the Spain / Gibraltar border is already VERY VERY closed. I mean you can go through it obviously, but it is hugely policed and checked rigorously. Something to do with 20 cigarettes costing about a quid in Gibraltar I suspect.

True, but if they chose to make life even more difficult it will be within their gift. It's all about taking back control, innit?! In reality the Spanish will be far more bothered about fishing rights given their fishing fleet bought a lot of the quota allocated to the UK fleet.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Agreed - the fishing rights is probably the key but Gibraltar is probably rather emblematic.

Of course, I would expect Spain to return several enclaves to Morocco at the same time...

 

[Wilf Wolf]

Agreed - the fishing rights is probably the key but Gibraltar is probably rather emblematic.

Of course, I would expect Spain to return several enclaves to Morocco at the same time...

What's the Spanish for "but that's completely different "?

 

[thehistorymakers]

Eso es completamente distinto, or, eso es completamente diferente.

 

[Bit on the shaggies]

Funny how it only took a slight nudge from the EU to shake the Tories out of their tree, I'm sure the EU negotiators are pissing themselves at the thought of dealing with a bunch of drama queens.

 

[Keef]

If Spain want to kick off,We'll be sending that aircraft carrier that isn't finished,and has no planes,that'll show em

 

[Premier Quality]

Funny how it only took a slight nudge from the EU to shake the Tories out of their tree, I'm sure the EU negotiators are pissing themselves at the thought of dealing with a bunch of drama queens.

Just out of interest is there more than just Michael Howard, the ex mp or is all this drama over one old retired guys views?

 

[Dinowolf]

A lot of flippant views on here over remarks, even in a draft document, that people from Gibraltar found bullying and intimidating.

Unpleasant remarks like these by the EU, have no place in official negotiations by reasonable people. Hardly fosters an atmosphere of friendliness.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

It is a very dim thing for the draft document to contain. Absolutely daft. And I suspect it was deliberate to try and get just the sort of reaction that Howard delivered. No reason for our actual negotiators to react in that way.

Simply be more diplomatic but say that sovereignty for Gibraltar is off the table unless the people of Gibraltar ask for it in a democratic referendum. IE - exactly what Theresa May has said, to be fair to her (for a change by me!!)

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

You could run a referendum every three months for the next 200 years and Gibraltar still wouldn't vote to secede to Spain.

The problem is - how does anyone think diplomatic incidents happen? Some idiot says the wrong thing and it all blows up because no-one backs down. So imagine all that on a massive scale and that's what you'll end up with if we persist with our current attitude. May has zero personal skills whatsoever and Boris/Davis/Fox just out themselves as imbeciles every time they speak. I'm surprised in Davis, he didn't have the worst track record before this shambles but then he comes out with crap like he hasn't checked what will happen if we end up with no deal...the other three are just arseholes (if I'm being kind).

Cruella needs to definitively do something which isn't a direct copy of what Paul Dacre wants at some point very soon because it's looking very much like master and puppet at the moment. It comes to something when I'd rather our PM take the lead from Murdoch over the poisonous cunt she's in thrall to at the moment. Although obviously I'd rather she actually, y'know, govern and not listen to people like that at all.

Dacre, Farage, Rees-Mogg, Redwood, Cash, IDS...how the actual FUCK did we end up with these people informing the debate and it all ending up in the hands of an unelected charisma vacuum who believes in extreme authoritarianism and little else (beyond stock, long since proven to be failed Tory economics)?

I refuse to believe even Tory supporters are happy with the current state of affairs.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

As a lapsed Tory I certainly am not happy at all. Like I have said before I am REALLY REALLY pissed at David Cameron for letting it come to this because he thought he could smack down these people plus Farage eternally by having a referendum and winning it without effort. How disrespectful is that to the views of a significant portion of the electorate?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Oh, and we're soon to have a yawning democratic deficit unrivalled anywhere in Western Europe when we allow the Government to pass widespread amendments to sovereign law with literally no scrutiny as part of their Repeal Bill. Puts us on a par with the likes of Belarus and Kazakhstan in that sense.

Taking back control.

 

[Dinowolf]

Why do you think there will be no scrutiny?