REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Penk Wolf]

That's kind of how it looks to me too to be honest. One of the reasons I don't bother posting much outside of the footy bit, there's a clique that will jump on anyone that doesn't agree with the herd and it gets very boring. (That and I'm busy at work at the moment so have less time). Personally when I do have time I'm happy to debate anyone as I have a pretty thick skin, but when I have less time and just read through, it's a bit painful and poor.

Without the few people who can bother to try and debate, this just turns into repetitive whinging about how awful everything is with no consideration that there are two sides to any discussion so there are potential benefits as well as downsides.its pointless unless blind agreement and ranting is all you actually want.

Theres no debate if you just remove or harass the people who disagree with you.

To be fair, I quite often disagree with the majority, but don't seem to get jumped on. Possibly because I put my point forward they put there's and then we move on when it gets to a stalemate?

 

[Trips]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39453338

EU's exit strategy is that they want initial discussion to be on exit settlement, but will start talk on trade deals when "sufficient progress" is made on those talks, so we don't need to have agreed the settlement before talks on trade begin.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

It appears that the EU will commence negotiations on future trade once the majority of the the exit has been negotiated. Absolutely no doubt who has the upper hand in these negotiations.

We have also been told that while we remain a member state we must abide by the rules - that means no negotiations on other trade deals. If we blatantly ignore that before we start discussions with the EU on trade it won't help our cause.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

OK let's get back to how we get the whole country back on track now brexit has been triggered. It is a tremendous opportunity to set down foundations for the next 100 years. Regardless of whicvh camp you sat in tghere can be no denying thiuthius really is a once in a lifetime chance so it is important to get right. I have spoken to a number of people who deal with the EU as part of their business from construction to food prep and transferand several complain about red tape and form filling. Is that true? Is dealing with the EU cumbersome and bureaucratic? Let me know, those of you with experience.

For now I am adding reduction in bureaucracy to my wish list for negotiations.

I am also going to use the negotiations time span to campaign against plastic bags. Technology is such that biodegradable bags only should be used . If MacDonald's can do it so can all supermarkets. Reduced landfill costs too.

Another one would be to incentivise public transport. Perhaps a free travel sass for all under 30s and pregnant mothers within 20 miles of your address on public transport ? Then subsidies for over 30s

 

[Penk Wolf]

Between us exporting to the EU and Germany exporting to us, which is the biggest value?

 

[Trips]

Between us exporting to the EU and Germany exporting to us, which is the biggest value?

Us exporting to EU is worth £220bn (in 2015) - can't find a figure for Germany, but Germany had a £27bn trade deficit with us in 2015

Us exporting to EU is going to be bigger in value than just Germany exporting to us.

 

[Sniffer]

Between us exporting to the EU and Germany exporting to us, which is the biggest value?

Us exporting to EU is worth £220bn (in 2015) - can't find a figure for Germany, but Germany had a £27bn trade deficit with us in 2015

Us exporting to EU is going to be bigger in value than just Germany exporting to us.

2014 Germany Exporting goods to us of £61bn and services of £10bn.

We sent them goods of £31bn and services of £12bn

 

[The Saturday Boy]

OK let's get back to how we get the whole country back on track now brexit has been triggered. It is a tremendous opportunity to set down foundations for the next 100 years. Regardless of whicvh camp you sat in tghere can be no denying thiuthius really is a once in a lifetime chance so it is important to get right. I have spoken to a number of people who deal with the EU as part of their business from construction to food prep and transferand several complain about red tape and form filling. Is that true? Is dealing with the EU cumbersome and bureaucratic? Let me know, those of you with experience.

For now I am adding reduction in bureaucracy to my wish list for negotiations.

I am also going to use the negotiations time span to campaign against plastic bags. Technology is such that biodegradable bags only should be used . If MacDonald's can do it so can all supermarkets. Reduced landfill costs too.

Another one would be to incentivise public transport. Perhaps a free travel sass for all under 30s and pregnant mothers within 20 miles of your address on public transport ? Then subsidies for over 30s

Most if not all of the "red tape" will be included in a trade deal. Every trade deal ever is wrapped up in bureaucracy. There is now way the EU will agree to anything that does not conform to their rules and regulations. The less we conform the likelihood their will be more not less.

 

[Penk Wolf]

If tariffs are added, what are peoples thoughts on it been staggered, say:

If 5%, 1% year one, 2% year two, 3% year 3, etc.
If 10%, 2% year one, 4% year two, etc.

Or do you think it will be 5% year 1 or 10% year one?

If it's the first then it will be easily workable and will bring in so called needed funds into the Government.

 

[Trips]

So a trade deficit of £28bn in 2014, and £27bn in 2015.

Germany are by far running the biggest trade deficit with us, the nearest after that is Spain which is around £12bn

 

[Penk Wolf]

2014 Germany Exporting goods to us of £61bn and services of £10bn.

We sent them goods of £31bn and services of £12bn

So, a net deficit would be £149 billion. Germany will only really care about Germany, but UK needs to look at the whole UK. EU certainly hold the cards then.

 

[Trips]

If tariffs are added, what are peoples thoughts on it been staggered, say:

If 5%, 1% year one, 2% year two, 3% year 3, etc.
If 10%, 2% year one, 4% year two, etc.

Or do you think it will be 5% year 1 or 10% year one?

If it's the first then it will be easily workable and will bring in so called needed funds into the Government.

I don't think tariffs will be added personally. It isn't in anybody's interests, especially not the EU's. There will still be some form of free trade deal, but we will have to make concessions

 

[visage]

If tariffs are added, what are peoples thoughts on it been staggered, say:

If 5%, 1% year one, 2% year two, 3% year 3, etc.
If 10%, 2% year one, 4% year two, etc.

Or do you think it will be 5% year 1 or 10% year one?

If it's the first then it will be easily workable and will bring in so called needed funds into the Government.

I think that would fail WTO 'Most favoured nation' rules. Basically if you give one nation (or bloc) a good deal you have to give it to everyone.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Unless we agree to unrestricted movement there WILL be tariffs.

 

[Trips]

Unless we agree to unrestricted movement there WILL be tariffs.

Something will have to give with the governments negotiations, and there will be a lot of angry disappointed people then. They have said 2 things repeatedly the last few weeks

1 - We will control our borders and immigration.
2 - We will enjoy the exact same benefits with the EU that we have now.

No way they can deliver on both of those promises, so we either keep free trade and allow unrestricted movement which will piss off people that voted on that basis, or they don't agree to movement of people and have some form of tariff imposed, therefore not delivering on promise of the exact same benefits.

 

[Penk Wolf]

I think that would fail WTO 'Most favoured nation' rules. Basically if you give one nation (or bloc) a good deal you have to give it to everyone.

It's not so much a good deal, it would just be staged rather than one hit.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Something will have to give with the governments negotiations, and there will be a lot of angry disappointed people then. They have said 2 things repeatedly the last few weeks

1 - We will control our borders and immigration.
2 - We will enjoy the exact same benefits with the EU that we have now.

No way they can deliver on both of those promises, so we either keep free trade and allow unrestricted movement which will piss off people that voted on that basis, or they don't agree to movement of people and have some form of tariff imposed, therefore not delivering on promise of the exact same benefits.

Exactly.

Even the Norwegian style arrangement has unrestricted movement.

It was always going to be this way but soundbites and lies have been used to sweep that under the carpet.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

For me unrestricted movement is the concession I would never give. I am up for compromise but free movement has to end.

 

[Trips]

For me unrestricted movement is the concession I would never give. I am up for compromise but free movement has to end.

I don't think they will keep free movement. With that, free trade is off the table. So already, we will have a worse deal than we currently have with our biggest trading partner. No matter what deals we strike elsewhere, we will never have the amount of trade from anywhere that we have with the EU, and we are going to end up with a worse trading deal through our own doing.

 

[visage]

For me unrestricted movement is the concession I would never give. I am up for compromise but free movement has to end.

Which is fine, but then you have to accept that the trade deals we get will be considerably worse than what we have now.

True freedom is the freedom to starve.