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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

thehistorymakers said:
The original 8, ( the low paid and poor) still have less food, they are still poorer. If the government had done the shopping before they invited the extra 4, then it would have been different. However both governments have been guilty of not doing the shopping. The invited aren't to blame, but the fact is, the original 8 have less cake.
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The the original 8 should do something about it and not expect others to do something about it for them.
 
Penk Wolf said:
The the original 8 should do something about it and not expect others to do something about it for them.
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Like build hospitals, schools and public services? That is the job of the government. Still the fact is the original 8 are poorer and their standard of living has gone down. 4 million workers living below the poverty line is a dream for the rich, they have cheaper labour and make more money. It is not so good for the poor, when the doormen of the party ( middle class) turn the other way and not only do they help the rich and continue to help them, they don't even recognise the extra suffering of their own poor. Their apathy, is the reason they couldn't see the the 8 voting to leave the cake party (EU). Until they recognise that the poor and low paid were paying the price, they are not going to understand why it has happened!
 
thehistorymakers said:
Like build hospitals, schools and public services? That is the job of the government. Still the fact is the original 8 are poorer and their standard of living has gone down. 4 million workers living below the poverty line is a dream for the rich, they have cheaper labour and make more money. It is not so good for the poor, when the doormen of the party ( middle class) turn the other way and not only do they help the rich and continue to help them, they don't even recognise the extra suffering of their own poor. Their apathy, is the reason they couldn't see the the 8 voting to leave the cake party (EU). Until they recognise that the poor and low paid were paying the price, they are not going to understand why it has happened!
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So it is the Government not your immigrants?
 
Both having it and eating it. However Boris is looking for new markets for our cake.
 
It depends, I wouldn't wish Christmas cake on anyone, not even them.
 
Yeah, but if they only have half a box for the cake because the illegal immigrants have pinched the other half of the box then it will go stale and my cause them illness.
 
Penk Wolf said:
So it is the Government not your immigrants?
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Yes of course and that has always been my point of view.
However, it doesn't get away from the fact that high immigration without government investment in public services means the low paid and the poor pay the price.

Both Labour and the Tory party have used immigration for their own benifit. The Tory party to make more money for the rich and the Labour party for votes. The result is the same, the low-paid and poor are the ones who have suffered. It would have got worse and worse, so the working class did the only thing they could. They voted to leave the EU as unlimited immigration without government investment would have meant the low-paid and poor would have kept getting poorer.
 
Penk Wolf said:
Yeah, but if they only have half a box for the cake because the illegal immigrants have pinched the other half of the box then it will go stale and my cause them illness.
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Nobody has said anything about Ilegal immigrants, or are blaming immigrants.
 
thehistorymakers said:
Yes of course and that has always been my point of view.
However, it doesn't get away from the fact that high immigration without government investment in public services means the low paid and the poor pay the price.

Both Labour and the Tory party have used immigration for their own benifit. The Tory party to make more money for the rich and the Labour party for votes. The result is the same, the low-paid and poor are the ones who have suffered. It would have got worse and worse, so the working class did the only thing they could. They voted to leave the EU as unlimited immigration without government investment would have meant the low-paid and poor would have kept getting poorer.
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Take the words high immigration out of that sentence and your sentence is true. You don't need the words high immigration in there, apart from to push your anti-immigration and anti-EU views. If you said "The fact that without government investment in public services means the low paid and the poor pay the price" then you're on the money.
 
Trips said:
Take the words high immigration out of that sentence and your sentence is true. You don't need the words high immigration in there, apart from to push your anti-immigration and anti-EU views. If you said "The fact that without government investment in public services means the low paid and the poor pay the price" then you're on the money.
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I am not blaming or never have blamed immigrants. The more people who use public services without enough investment means more strain on public services. The Tory party won't invest more, so you can't keep bringing more people, as it is the low paid who are suffering the consequences.
If you have 4 Doctors in a Doctors surgery and they have 1000 people on their list. If you bring in another 1000 people you will have to wait twice as long to see a Doctor. If the government had invested in a new doctors surgery and new doctors then the original 1000 people don't have to wait any longer than before. The government have not invested, so bringing another 1000 people is part of the problem.
Do I blame the 1000 people, no. I blame the government, but the fact stands that low-paid workers and the poor are getting poorer and the public services that they use are in crisis.
 
thehistorymakers said:
I am not blaming or never have blamed immigrants. The more people who use public services without enough investment means more strain on public services. The Tory party won't invest more, so you can't keep bringing more people, as it is the low paid who are suffering the consequences.
If you have 4 Doctors in a Doctors surgery and they have 1000 people on their list. If you bring in another 1000 people you will have to wait twice as long to see a Doctor. If the government had invested in a new doctors surgery and new doctors then the original 1000 people don't have to wait any longer than before. The government have not invested, so bringing another 1000 people is part of the problem.
Do I blame the 1000 people, no. I blame the government, but the fact stands that low-paid workers and the poor are getting poorer and the public services that they use are in crisis.
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You say you don't blame immigrants, but then go on to say that you can't keep bringing people in. The issue is the lack of government investment, so to solve the issues in the NHS (for example, as you brought up doctors) is for the government to invest. The solution isn't to stop or limit immigration.

Not too mention that the only way the NHS functions is because of workers from abroad, and if left to British workers it would crumble in no time. How does that fit in with the plan to limit or stop immigration?
 
If you want investment then immigration makes it easier, as it improves the pubic finances, even after accounting for the services those immigrants use.
 
So next hand grenade! Switzerland I believe recently rejected a national income paid by the state to all its citizens. I was having a think. If that happened here you could scrap benefits completely, and old age pensions and just keep the nhs? Also no benefits equals no benefits for migrants too so that could appease those wanting immigration controls. I don't know enough about it to see if its workable but hey ho off you go............
 
Universal Income is a good idea and the case for it becomes ever stronger with increased automation and jobs disappearing in the not too distant future.
 
thehistorymakers said:
Not your cake, the cake of the poor and low-paid. You eat in a different restaurant and know everything about the poor if they come from somewhere else, but have apathy to our own poor.
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There.you go again. You really do need to stop making things up about me. Saying things on my behalf to bolster your own position is poor form.
 
Cyber-_-man said:
So next hand grenade! Switzerland I believe recently rejected a national income paid by the state to all its citizens. I was having a think. If that happened here you could scrap benefits completely, and old age pensions and just keep the nhs? Also no benefits equals no benefits for migrants too so that could appease those wanting immigration controls. I don't know enough about it to see if its workable but hey ho off you go............
Click to expand...
You really do have a bee in your bonnet about migrants don't you?
 
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