REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[lemonjelly]

It was shameful and you need to take at look at yourself.

Have a word with yourself.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

Shameful but at least you answered part of the question.
Don't you think the EU should give the same assurances to UK citizens living in the EU? was the other question

Frankly any Brit living n the Continent who voted for Brexit has absolutely no grounds to complain about how the EU is treating them. It strikes me May won't do anything about making a commitment to EU nationals because our negotiating stance is so weak and she wants to keep it up her sleeve even though the idea of sending EU nationals "home' is ridiculous.

 

[Johnny75]

You are trying to change the subject, Johnny. Try having a little empathy for the poor British people who are going to bed tonight and aren't sure of their future in the EU. Just try being decent and $#@! politicians. Say the EU should stop using EU nationals as bargain chips. Go on Johnny, it will be good for you to think freely instead of being in an echo chamber.

You do realise by voting to leave you created that uncertainty don't you? Stop the patronising bollocks and spouting utter shite and try, just try to debate the point I made on passports and citizenship. That is the issue, not you continually slating the EU. If you want to do that then bore off.

You should be embarrassed with some of the posts you make about thinking for yourself and echo chambers, hero.

 

[Papper]

You are trying to change the subject, Johnny. Try having a little empathy for the poor British people who are going to bed tonight and aren't sure of their future in the EU. Just try being decent and $#@! politicians. Say the EU should stop using EU nationals as bargain chips. Go on Johnny, it will be good for you to think freely instead of being in an echo chamber.

There is no comparison. The British expats living and working in the EU are not generally doing unskilled, cheap labour in great numbers for the service industry (because the jobs aren't there) and besides there are plentiful low paid, unskilled jobs in the service industry here. Kids go and work a summer season in the hotspots, party and have a good time then return home. Students study and there will always be reciprocal arrangements. the EU will always need skilled people/professionals and that applies to all countries within it.

 

[Tony Towner]

The EU should guarantee those rights and I fully expect them to.

However as this is a situation of OUR making it is up to US to make the first move, not the EU. That May had no intention of doing so and has had to be pushed into it by the Lords sums her up, a vile piece of work.

She won't have to, the Commons will send it back and the Lords will pass it, as them holding back the process would be the death knell for them.

 

[Tredman]

British expats, European immigrants

 

[Papper]

British expats, European immigrants ��

Correction - European 'economic' migrants. Exploited labour of the Corporates.

 

[Papper]

British expats can also claim to pay their own way in Europe, as the UK paid £674 million in 2014-2015 to other European countries for the treatment of UK nationals. However, the UK received just £49 million from other European nations in the same year to treat those from other countries residing in the UK.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/eu-facts-what-would-leaving-the-eu-mean-for-expats/

 

[thehistorymakers]

Frankly any Brit living n the Continent who voted for Brexit has absolutely no grounds to complain about how the EU is treating them. It strikes me May won't do anything about making a commitment to EU nationals because our negotiating stance is so weak and she wants to keep it up her sleeve even though the idea of sending EU nationals "home' is ridiculous.

Missing the point. I have lived in Spain 25 years, I have no problem being able to remain in Spain. There are many UK citizens living on the continent who don't have that assurance. I have always agreed that EU citizens living in the UK should be given assurances that they can remain in the UK. That was voted for tonight, but there wasn't even one word in that ammendment to say that the EU should give assurances to UK nationals. Even though the UK has no jurastrictuon over what happens in the EU, it would have been half decent to at least mention the plight of the UK citizens in the EU. It doesn't matter if they voted Brexit or not, they are still British citizens.
Somethings are more important than a political party, it is principles and fairness. It would be nice to see a remain poster say the EU should stop dragging their feet and playing with the lives of British expats living in the EU. Surely that beacon of fairness you all went on about is failing UK citizens here.

 

[thehistorymakers]

The EU should guarantee those rights and I fully expect them to.

However as this is a situation of OUR making it is up to US to make the first move, not the EU. That May had no intention of doing so and has had to be pushed into it by the Lords sums her up, a vile piece of work.

Well done Deustch, I missed your post. I would have expected no less of you. If something is right it is right. I would expect the vast majority of remain voters to think the same as you. It is about decency, people have families and kids at schools and they need assurances.

 

[Papper]

That was voted for tonight, but there wasn't even one word in that ammendment to say that the EU should give assurances to UK nationals. .

The House of Lords cannot do that they can only debate from a UK perspective on the preliminary terms of Brexit. It would be a bit stupid if they all agreed that if Brits abroad were forcefully repatriated then the UK migrants were repatriated too. That's not really open to debate at this point in time. Do you seriously think the members of the EU are going to repatriate Brits because I don't.

 

[thehistorymakers]

The House of Lords cannot do that they can only debate from a UK perspective on the preliminary terms of Brexit. It would be a bit stupid if they all agreed that if Brits abroad were forcefully repatriated then the UK migrants were repatriated too. That's not really open to debate at this point in time. Do you seriously think the members of the EU are going to repatriate Brits because I don't.

No neither did I think the UK was going to repatriate the EU nationals living in the UK.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

It's a bit of a silly game on both sides. Neither side has the will to be repatriating people - it looks awful, it has some truly horrible echoes of regimes from the past and it would cost silly amounts of money to administer. The problem is that these folk in charge treat people's actual lives like it's a game, they throw out atrocious metaphors about poker when the lot of them couldn't do a deal at a car boot sale in reality.

As before I would say the onus is on us to blink first being as we're the ones who've caused this situation, for better or worse. May's had months and months just to make this simple step and she refuses to do it. It's appalling stuff from an appalling woman. I wouldn't especially defend the EU either on the matter because whether we should be taking the first step or not, it's still not a very good attitude and I hope they reciprocate quickly (assuming the Commons don't bat this straight back to the Lords and say 'no', which would be even more appalling).

 

[thehistorymakers]

It's a bit of a silly game on both sides. Neither side has the will to be repatriating people - it looks awful, it has some truly horrible echoes of regimes from the past and it would cost silly amounts of money to administer. The problem is that these folk in charge treat people's actual lives like it's a game, they throw out atrocious metaphors about poker when the lot of them couldn't do a deal at a car boot sale in reality.

As before I would say the onus is on us to blink first being as we're the ones who've caused this situation, for better or worse. May's had months and months just to make this simple step and she refuses to do it. It's appalling stuff from an appalling woman. I wouldn't especially defend the EU either on the matter because whether we should be taking the first step or not, it's still not a very good attitude and I hope they reciprocate quickly (assuming the Commons don't bat this straight back to the Lords and say 'no', which would be even more appalling).

You put that a lot better than I could and I agree with every word you have written. Well done.

 

[Papper]

Shouldn't the 42% of unelected peers who voted NO now call for a recount because their views haven't been represented? How are their views going to be represented going forward? Isn't this the way it works?

 

[Papper]

Those already living and working in the UK should have equal rights but those yet to come shouldn't. Article 50 means the end of the free movement of labour. At least it gets debated by those elected next.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

So 6 - 9% of 5.3% of the UK population who have EU passports were born outside of the EU and they all live in Cambridge? Thanks.

Cambridge and the surrounding small towns and villages population is currently about the same in total as the number of eu immigrants who were actually born outside the eu. You have those scissors out again dont you?

 

[leedswolf]

Eh?

 

[visage]

Absolutely. The higher the taxes you pay the lower your living standards (You have less money)

No. Im sure JK Rowling pays an absolute fucktonne of taxes, but I dont see her visiting a foodbank any time soon.

With regards to the wiser point about immigration; Imagine that the state could draw up a balance sheet for every individual. Person X paid this much tax last year. They had their bins collected, they had these GP appointments, they set fire to their house so needed the fire service to come out and so on.

The aggregation of those individuals accounts is the national state - how much did the government receive in income, how much did it spend.

If you add people to that mix it effects both sides of the balance sheet. They use services, but they also pay taxes. Many many studies have shown that immigrants, being generally young, healthy and childless, tend to have a net positive effect on the economy - they pay tax, but dont tend to use the NHS, claim a pension, or have kids that need education.

So if you decided to remove them from the country, sure, you'd need to spend less on the NHS, education etc. But you'd be receiving less tax, and the drop in receipts tends to be greater than the drop in expenditure. Meaning the 'national state' I mentioned is worse than it was before - theres less money to go around.

So the message is that if you hear politicians talking about making tough decisions in the name of austerity, dont ask them to kick out foreigners, ask them whey they're not machine-gunning pensioners....

 

[visage]

Perhaps this might work for this thread...

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-understand-post-quiz-questions-a7607246.html