REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Paddingtonwolf]

I do not think it is a conspiracy by anyone, but this forum is definitely to the left of politics. And it is definitely not representative of the country as a whole.

I agree Frank. It is left of centre on here. But we righties do get a voice.

 

[Penk Wolf]

There's no one that is a true Tory on here though, as most I know agree with austerity.

A true Tory would be hounded off in days.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

If they couldn't or refused to back up their opinions then maybe.

They'd struggle to defend austerity as it's indefensible in any context.

 

[Penk Wolf]

If they couldn't or refused to back up their opinions then maybe.

They'd struggle to defend austerity as it's indefensible in any context.

Not really, they'd be too many questions shot at them and most, if not all, would disagree and a few insults added.

Obviously, their argument would be why should they pay for others.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Because that's how society functions.

 

[Penk Wolf]

I'm not meaning to have a debate with you, I personally think people should help others if they can, however their are plenty of people that do have that mind set.

 

[Tony Towner]

I've not been on there for a year or more now, but Mol Mix used to have quite a right wing none football section, with a couple of hard lefties thrown in.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

In my experience, when right wing voters are confronted with the facts and scale of what their shit Governments actually do, they give up on the debate. Just stop answering or change the subject.

 

[Penk Wolf]

In my experience, when right wing voters are confronted with the facts and scale of what their shit Governments actually do, they give up on the debate. Just stop answering or change the subject.

I had a discussion with a mate not long back who voted Conservatives and the example he gave was he was pissed off that people like his sister, who'd never worked and had no intentions of working, should be receiving benefits.

I gave him a few example why voting Conservatives wasn't the way to go and like you say, he shut up, but I think it was more that he had his opinion and wasn't interested in discussing it.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

In my experience, when right wing voters are confronted with the facts and scale of what their shit Governments actually do, they give up on the debate. Just stop answering or change the subject.

Ahem. I would really hope you never felt I did that Dan

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Ahem. I would really hope you never felt I did that Dan

There are exceptions to every rule

 

[visage]

I had a discussion with a mate not long back who voted Conservatives and the example he gave was he was pissed off that people like his sister, who'd never worked and had no intentions of working, should be receiving benefits.

I gave him a few example why voting Conservatives wasn't the way to go and like you say, he shut up, but I think it was more that he had his opinion and wasn't interested in discussing it.

Because no one has invented a welfare system that is impossible to game.

The answer isn't to remove help from those that need it in the hope that you stop the tiny minority that don't.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Because no one has invented a welfare system that is impossible to game.

The answer isn't to remove help from those that need it in the hope that you stop the tiny minority that don't.

I think it's more that some people only care about themselves.

 

[Trips]

I think it's more that some people only care about themselves.

This line of thinking is becoming more and more prevalent in society (unfortunately)

People only thinking about what affects them, and what will benefit them rather than the collective.

 

[Johnny75]

This line of thinking is becoming more and more prevalent in society (unfortunately)

People only thinking about what affects them, and what will benefit them rather than the collective.

You are asking people to change their way of thinking but not offering a viable alternative in their eyes as Penk points out.

This government is the cruellest Tory party I've ever known and I include Thatcher's in that too.

I do find it offensive that the older generations moan and whine about immigration and the economy when they are largely at fault for both of those things not working correctly. It's a selfish and self defeating attitude that just pisses people off.

They've had a free education, functioning and free NHS and the ability to retire at 65. Mine and my children's generation will not get that and it pisses me right off.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Aye. Totally with you on that. Selfish silver vote.

 

[leedswolf]

Ahem. When have I ever moaned about and whined about immigration?

 

[Johnny75]

Ahem. When have I ever moaned about and whined about immigration?

I should have said majority as you are quite correct comrade

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-defend-corbyn-he-has-betrayed-us-over-brexit

This is not far off where I am on Corbyn. He's totally lost me on the EU issue, irrevocably and I do see it as a form of betrayal.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

I think it's more that some people only care about themselves.

And for that I blame the media and sensationalist journalism together with the rise of so called factual documentary programmes on television that highlight benefit cheats and scroungers from home and abroad. It creates a groundswell against people on benefits and an assumption amongst some people that most on benefits are fraudsters which is not the case and that immigrants only come here to scrounge benefits. As you know I believe the system should be an effective safety net available to those in need when they need it not a career choice.
This line of thinking is becoming more and more prevalent in society (unfortunately)

People only thinking about what affects them, and what will benefit them rather than the collective.

That is reality if people feel shut down or made to feel defensive. For a generation now we have not got the message around multi cultural britain right. The political correct brigade have shut down any view that differs from their so many times and its very very easy to shout racist when in many cases its lack of understanding without any malicious intent. Again bad news sells papers.

You are asking people to change their way of thinking but not offering a viable alternative in their eyes as Penk points out.

This government is the cruellest Tory party I've ever known and I include Thatcher's in that too.

I do find it offensive that the older generations moan and whine about immigration and the economy when they are largely at fault for both of those things not working correctly. It's a selfish and self defeating attitude that just pisses people off.

They've had a free education, functioning and free NHS and the ability to retire at 65. Mine and my children's generation will not get that and it pisses me right off.

Harsh. That older generation was what put in place things like the health service initially, oversaw the expansion of britain, passed the laws on race and gender discrimination, sought to keep the far right and far left out of power in Britain and generally tried to make Britain what it actually is and that is one of the safest most tolerant countries in the world. You and others corrected me about tuition fees on another thread so free education for them compared to paying for an education that you are likely to never pay back , which was the argument give, is hardly a giant leap. Again, you have to look at the perceptions they were used to growing up. From my perspective there ere very few black or ethnic minority children at my school. Certainly less than 10 in the whole school. No 1st Gen polish, czech or Romanian. Now there are a good proportion of all within the same school. Time has moved very quick and on the back of such media hype, austerity cuts, NHS cuts, recession and technology changes people very soon think sod you jack I am alright. It may not be right but I understand how it can happen. The ridiculous state of british politics means that it is likely to get worse before it gets better. A viable moderate alternative that can allow for the effective growth of british culture alongside the cultures of other countries while maintaining mutual respect is sadly missing and in any event will take time and effort to achieve.