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O'Neil In, Out and Shaking it all about

We’ve never played with a back 4 consistently in 7 years, so pretty silly to say “we look better playing a 5”.

The start of those years we had Coady in a bespoke role and I wouldn’t have him playing CB in a 2 in L1, so we either had to drop our captain or carry on playing that way. Lopetegui comes in, plays a 4 and has us as top half performers over a 6 month stretch which was as good as we’ve been results wise since 2017-2020. So we haven’t “always looked better in a 5”

What Gary is playing isn’t a back 4 or 5, I don’t know what it is. It’s closer to a back 2. It’s such a mess it’s silly to try and realistically compare it to anything else. There’s also other variables like the single pivot, which are probably more of a factor anyway.
 
This is it really. It doesn't matter whether it's a back 4 or a back 5 when what is going on in front of them is a chaotic, disorganised mess. It maybe true that our defenders aren't great, it seems like the only one who can actually defend is Dawson and he's nearly as old as I am (I celebrated my 57th birthday yesterday by the way, and yes I had a good one, thanks for asking), but they are being made to look far worse than they are at times by the chaos of our midfield 'system'. It seems like that is compounded by numerous players randomly taking turns on forgetting how to do basic things like marking at set pieces, or not allowing players to cut back onto their stronger foot for a shot. And those things are not just going to be corrected by playing 3 CBs IMO.
 
Dire Wolf said:
This is it really. It doesn't matter whether it's a back 4 or a back 5 when what is going on in front of them is a chaotic, disorganised mess. It maybe true that our defenders aren't great, it seems like the only one who can actually defend is Dawson and he's nearly as old as I am (I celebrated my 57th birthday yesterday by the way, and yes I had a good one, thanks for asking), but they are being made to look far worse than they are at times by the chaos of our midfield 'system'. It seems like that is compounded by numerous players randomly taking turns on forgetting how to do basic things like marking at set pieces, or not allowing players to cut back onto their stronger foot for a shot. And those things are not just going to be corrected by playing 3 CBs IMO.
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It is quite obvious to me that our defenders / midfielders aren't drilled enough in their defensive duties. I was reading Tony Adams or Lee Dixon's book, I forget which, a few years ago and one of them mentioned how many hours they spent on the training pitch simply running defensive drills until Wenger was saitisfied. Sometimes he made then stay behind as he wasn't happy with the work done that day. That mess against Chelsea was bad enough but then to repeat it against Brentford and make it arguably worse, did for me. Bottom line here is we are relegated unless he does something to solidify our back line and stop the flow of goals into our net. Clean sheets are essential.
 
3 at the back, 4 at the back, 2 at the back, 10 at the back, 0 at the back, I just want to go home from Molineux having seen us win a game of football, can’t see it happening any time soon under the current regime.
 
Dire Wolf said:
This is it really. It doesn't matter whether it's a back 4 or a back 5 when what is going on in front of them is a chaotic, disorganised mess. It maybe true that our defenders aren't great, it seems like the only one who can actually defend is Dawson and he's nearly as old as I am (I celebrated my 57th birthday yesterday by the way, and yes I had a good one, thanks for asking), but they are being made to look far worse than they are at times by the chaos of our midfield 'system'. It seems like that is compounded by numerous players randomly taking turns on forgetting how to do basic things like marking at set pieces, or not allowing players to cut back onto their stronger foot for a shot. And those things are not just going to be corrected by playing 3 CBs IMO.
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I totally agree.

But I've said it numerous times, having another player that is good/better in the air WILL help, and reducing the defensive duties from both Semedo and RAN will help too, as they're both struggling.

It's not the silver bullet, but our eyes and the stats suggest that it would help, and that's what we need to do, help the situation.
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
I totally agree.

But I've said it numerous times, having another player that is good/better in the air WILL help, and reducing the defensive duties from both Semedo and RAN will help too, as they're both struggling.

It's not the silver bullet, but our eyes and the stats suggest that it would help, and that's what we need to do, help the situation.
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Nope.

It's not what we need to do and no matter how times you say it doesn't make it right

Nearly everybody has said it's nothing to do with the formation, I have no idea why you keep ignoring this. Perhaps you could explain why?
 
March-May 2024, with three CHs: P11 W2 D2 L7 F10 A25 Pts 8

When you take into account that we played two teams who didn't get near 30 points in that run, it's hardly a sign that it will improve matters. We score fewer and we still concede bloody loads.
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
We've nullified 2 of our best ball carriers (RAN and Semedo) we've reduced our aerial presence, (Andre has not won a single headed duel) and we've put Lemina into a position he's crap in. We've also dislodged Gomes who has been poor
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I know this isn't the case, but it's like you see the line up on FotMob and decide what happened without watching the games. Semedo and RAN aren't nullified, them being too high up the pitch has often been part of the problem, the opposition using the space in behind because we don't bother filling it.
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
March-May 2024, with three CHs: P11 W2 D2 L7 F10 A25 Pts 8
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I must have imagined all the headed goals we keep conceding. And as I keep explaining, adding another aerial presence will help with that.

Also those stats above are pitiful, but they're still a better PPG than this season.
 
Tony Towner said:
I know this isn't the case, but it's like you see the line up on FotMob and decide what happened without watching the games. Semedo and RAN aren't nullified, them being too high up the pitch has often been part of the problem, the opposition using the space in behind because we don't bother filling it.
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And with 5 we would fill it (better).
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
I must have imagined all the headed goals we keep conceding. And as I keep explaining, adding another aerial presence will help with that.

Also those stats above are pitiful, but they're still a better PPG than this season.
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Yes, the amazing Santi Bueno in the air. You couldn't get the Express and Star under his feet when he jumps.

We don't have the players to do what you're asking.
 
The headed goals we concede are from corners. We have Strand back then, for example, who’s massive.
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
Yes, the amazing Santi Bueno in the air. You couldn't get the Express and Star under his feet when he jumps.

We don't have the players to do what you're asking.
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Bueno is not great, but to suggest this wouldn't help whilst also stating how many crap headed goals we concede is odd to say the least.

Andre hasn't won a single aerial duel this season. We only have Dawson and Toti who are doing anything in the air. We'd also have players in the spaces behind RAN and Semedo.

But yeah, let's just keep saying the same thing over and over because as Dave Jones says, formations don't make any difference at all (y)
 
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Elephant Pyjamas said:
I must have imagined all the headed goals we keep conceding. And as I keep explaining, adding another aerial presence will help with that.

Also those stats above are pitiful, but they're still a better PPG than this season.
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It won't, or at least will have very little impact. Take 2 of last weeks goals as an example, Toti goes walkabout and completely loses Collins an extra centre half isn't doing anything about that goal. For Pinnocks we already have everyone back in the box, so there's not an extra man, we chose to not mark him, whether that's by some weird tactical design or just incompetence. It's a massive stretch to suggest that Bueno would have been the one to decide to pick him up, given he's hardly covered himself in glory when he's played.

There's an argument for 3 at the back, it's not the one you are making though.
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
But yeah, let's just keep saying the same thing over and over because as Dave Jones says, formations don't make any difference (y)
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This formation doesn't make any difference though, we have been horrible with three CHs for ages.

So from the last game you would presumably drop Forbs for Bueno.

I do not think that is the road to glory.
 
I don't think it's a silver bullet either, I think it'd help though. An extra CB would have prevented Collins goal in my opinion, or a more switched on Toti or CM.

The corner goals are inexplicable, but also again, I think another CB would have some sort of impact, yes.

Giving Semeo and RAN more freedom and having defenders in behind, again would benefit us.
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
I don't think it's a silver bullet either, I think it'd help though. An extra CB would have prevented Collins goal in my opinion, or a more switched on Toti or CM.

The corner goals are inexplicable, but also again, I think another CB would have some sort of impact, yes.

Giving Semeo and RAN more freedom and having defenders in behind, again would benefit us.
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The difference between us is you put more emphasis on a formation, whereas I look more at the coaching and player weaknesses. We come to the same conclusion, but for different reasons, yours schematic mine incompetence on and off the pitch. The high ball is all coaching and execution, not formation though, what it might do us make us less easy to play through.

I'd only go there as I don't think the manager is capable of coaching any group of players available in this squad in a 4, part him, part them.
 
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