Nottm Forest 31/8: Build-Up & Match Thread

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RAN has shown on 2 occasions that he's vastly out of his depth as a LB.

Has he? When?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Has he? When?

Against Arsenal and against Chelsea!

 

[1986]

I'd play Santi at centre back instead of Toti - if we go three at the back . If it's two centre backs , then Dawson and Yerson nailed on .

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Against Arsenal and against Chelsea!

Not sure Saka cutting inside once is showing he's vastly out of his depth - rest of his Arsenal performance was alright wasn't it?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

He got an absolute chasing last weekend (not helped by Bellegarde doing his Rohan Ricketts impression after half time) but you wouldn't say it "proved" he can't play left back any more than you'd say Dean Richards proved he couldn't play at centre half because Dele Adebola totally rinsed him once at Molineux.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

He got an absolute chasing last weekend (not helped by Bellegarde doing his Rohan Ricketts impression after half time) but you wouldn't say it "proved" he can't play left back any more than you'd say Dean Richards proved he couldn't play at centre half because Dele Adebola totally rinsed him once at Molineux.

If Doherty had performed like RAN has defensively in the last two games you'd have broken the Internet at the idea of him starting against Forest in the same position.

RAN is not currently performing well enough to continue at LB, he's a liability. He needs to move to LWB and have Toti behind him or move further forward.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

If Doherty had performed like RAN has defensively in the last two games you'd have broken the Internet at the idea of him starting against Forest in the same position.

I know you read my verdict from Sunday but I'll repeat the exact line from it:

Only fair that after I've absolutely drilled Doherty for over a decade for abysmal one-on-one defending that I do the same when someone else - as much as I like him - puts in such a shameful show.

But I have seen Ait-Nouri defend well numerous times in the Premier League against very good players. Matt Doherty cannot defend against anyone.

 

[PuntsWolf]

The Ait Nouri LW thing is all a bit Nayor/Vinagre to me.

Outside of mental dribbles (from deep in the middle of the pitch, not a situation he will encounter too often as a winger) his attacking output is generally pretty average. His shooting is largely poor and I wouldn’t have his crossing as a standout attribute, it showed improvement last season but before that I’d have had it down as a weakness.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I know you read my verdict from Sunday but I'll repeat the exact line from it:

Only fair that after I've absolutely drilled Doherty for over a decade for abysmal one-on-one defending that I do the same when someone else - as much as I like him - puts in such a shameful show.

But I have seen Ait-Nouri defend well numerous times in the Premier League against very good players. Matt Doherty cannot defend against anyone.

Doc literally put in a good performance against Martinelli the week before.

Anyway, I shouldn't have brought Doc up.

RAN at LB currently doesn't work, I think we need a change.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Well what you shouldn't have done is make up a situation which was actually the opposite of what I said

Is "form" two games now? Are we binning him as a LB forever? If not, how does he ever get back in there?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Well what you shouldn't have done is make up a situation which was actually the opposite of what I said

Is "form" two games now? Are we binning him as a LB forever? If not, how does he ever get back in there?

No, I shouldn't. But you love an analogy

I think when you've performed as badly as he did defensively and been directly responsible for how many goals? Then yes, you should look at moving/dropping that player. We'd do it with anyone else!

I wouldn't drop him anyway, I'd play him LWB or LW.

 

[Tony Towner]

The 3 at the back argument has always been and remains so, so simplistic. Bored of reading about it and the collective lack of understanding of those that bang on about it. I'm done.

Rant over.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I just don't think he's a LB at this stage in his career, whether that changes with better coaching or better/different players around him I don't know. But at this moment I wouldn't play him there.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

The 3 at the back argument has always been and remains so, so simplistic. Bored of reading about it at the collective lack of understanding of those that bang on about it. I'm done.

Rant over.

How wonderfully condescending

People who put "rant over" at the end of a comment aren't usually worth listening to

 

[Tony Towner]

How wonderfully condescending

People who put "rant over" at the end of a comment aren't usually worth listening to

Exactly, there isn't any listening done either side, that's why it's boring.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Exactly, there isn't any listening done either side, that's why it's boring.

Thing is, I can appreciate and understand why people want to go to a 4, I just don't think we have the players (and possibly the coach) for it at the moment.

Also I don't believe we should be married to the formation of a 4 anymore than to a 5.

If we did have the players for a 4, I'd have looked to have played a 5 against both Chelsea and Arsenal and then 4 against Forest. Obviously, ironically we could end up doing the opposite! It's been poorly managed.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'm not against three CHs in principle.

I just think people use it as an easy answer (not EP here) and pretend it solves everything when it doesn't (our defensive record was shite last season), they ignore the detrimental effects it has (which have been proven over multiple years now) and that narrative about "Wolves can't play four at the back" when we have totally different players and coaching staff from the days when three CHs objectively was our best option is so strange.

 

[lemonjelly]

Bored of reading about it at the collective lack of understanding of those that bang on about it. I'm done.

Rant over.

I don't believe you...

 

[slink]

Against Arsenal and against Chelsea!

World class winger got half a yard on him once and Sa gets beat by a shot he should save.

Madueke gave him nightmares on Sunday but he was isolated and then he’s being asked to invert and provide with a lack of midfield cover. I do think he’s wasted though at LB, his ball carrying ability needs to used more and his end product has to improve but he’s too good at beating players to be a left back. Don’t think he’s a left winger though but he could play there in a 4231 if the 10 is Cunha who drifts to the left and Rayan drops deeper inside to pick the ball up. Also think he could do it from the right. It’s a bit of a conundrum but a good one to have with a player of his ability.

 

[Law's Bus]

I think what this thread is showing so far is that none of us knows what the hell we should do either!