Norwich 0-0 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[PuntsWolf]

. Soccer Saturday were amazed at his 16 outfield players comment today

In what sense?

 

[Tony Towner]

In what sense?

That's all he has. Couple of injuries (we had 2 today). The only 2 subs who were ever going to come on today in anything other than an injury or time-wasting perspective were the 2 who did. Couldn't believe we are so light

 

[WsWolf]

So Lage did Adama a favour my moving him from his preferred advanced attacking position, to a place on the park which renders him impotent? What a crazy world you must be living in.

Which preferred position? How many times do I need to say this, WE DO NOT PLAY WITH WINGERS. There is no position in our formation that he actually fits.

The crazy world that actually understands how formations are meant to work.

 

[Loki]

We are a million miles off what I thought we'd be under him. I thought we'd score and concede loads. On balance I think that's a good thing at the moment, but he needs players in Jan. Soccer Saturday were amazed at his 16 outfield players comment today

Do you trust our recruitment team to deliver in January? I`m not sure.

 

[Tony Towner]

Do you trust our recruitment team to deliver in January? I`m not sure.

Nope

 

[PuntsWolf]

That's all he has. Couple of injuries (we had 2 today). The only 2 subs who were ever going to come on today in anything other than an injury or time-wasting perspective were the 2 who did. Couldn't believe we are so light

Just wondered if it was “a manager can’t say that, doesn’t give the back ups confidence” etc.

 

[squashnut]

I don't care so much about the score- without Traore or Podence the game is boring.

 

[Boozad]

We are a million miles off what I thought we'd be under him. I thought we'd score and concede loads. On balance I think that's a good thing at the moment, but he needs players in Jan. Soccer Saturday were amazed at his 16 outfield players comment today

They were also amazed that when Saiss and Bowly go to the AFCON we'll only be left with one. Expected better from Stelling to be honest.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

I think the logic in this is right, but do we really think Neves and Moutinho are “safe” players? I don’t think the back 3 are (relative to their position) and the other positions are all new or relatively new signings.

Lage just seems to set us up for a point away (which we got more by luck than design today, a semi comepetent teams beats us). The spaces between the lines are too big which highlights the midfield 2s lack of mobility, and isolates the front 3 - whose ball retention, skill and decision making just isn’t good enough to play that way.

Under Nuno we could be compact and counter. This team doesn’t seem to be able to counter and isn’t being particularly compact either.

I don’t think the way he set up the Team today is how we should be playing against Norwich. A higher line, compressing the spaces and taking the game to them and making use of our alledged greater technical ability seems to be a better way to go?

Neves very much so.

His movement in possession is always so negative for me, constantly coming far too deep, almost behind the ball half the time. To me he doesn't ever look comfortable receiving the ball with his back to the opposition goal, rarely seems to take the ball on the half turn and then go forwards with it from that position. Almost exclusively seems to play it immediately backward if he does have to receive it whilst facing his own goal.

Take the goal last week as an example, when the ball came across to Kilman it almost ended up as a pass to Neves because he was so deep, no need for him to be there at that point. Then Kilman has to hold the ball a relative age to coax Neves into making the run behind the opponent, he could've been pretty much in that position from the off allowing Kilman to play a first time pass and take that guy out of the game.

Compare him to someone like Jorginho, both sit in a conservative midfield position but without being inherently defensive players. The Italian, sort of, backs himself to receive the ball in much tighter areas much more often. He'll often take the ball under pressure and play a blind pass round the corner first time, he's happy to take that risk to help his team break the press where Neves would almost always just shuffle it back to the defence.

He's got a very good range of passing but I don't see a 50-60 yard pass across the field being particularly high risk. Sure it's harder to execute but if it fails the ball is still a long way from your goal with most of your team the right side of it. A 10 yard pass half way inside your own half can be far riskier.

Moutinho is a bit more balanced I think, he doesn't tend to come as deep as often to get on the ball and will often engage the press before the players ahead of him look that arsed about it. He's still not exactly perfect for taking the game to the opposition though, doesn't really push into threatening positions off the ball or play many intricate passes that are going to take opponents out of the game. He'd perhaps be a good steady presence next to someone a bit more ambitious, though they'd still need to be capable of doing their fair share of mucking in too.

It's a team wide issue for me, although you can definitely see improvement in the backline trying to pick play into the feet of the wide forwards this season. People would often rather take an extra touch and lose an opportunity to pass than try to force it through a gap early, Jimenez did that almost every time he had it today. Some players end up getting a bit of grief even when they're on the receiving end of it rather than the cause. Think everytime I saw the ball go to RAN today he was at a standstill by the time he'd received it, no wonder he struggled to go anywhere with it when he never gets a decent pass he can take in his stride and get at people while they're off guard. Looking at Chelsea again, as they play the same shape, look how often they get Chilwell and James flying onto the ball at full pelt and how difficult it is to stop them as a result.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Neves very much so.

His movement in possession is always so negative for me, constantly coming far too deep, almost behind the ball half the time. To me he doesn't ever look comfortable receiving the ball with his back to the opposition goal, rarely seems to take the ball on the half turn and then go forwards with it from that position. Almost exclusively seems to play it immediately backward if he does have to receive it whilst facing his own goal.

Take the goal last week as an example, when the ball came across to Kilman it almost ended up as a pass to Neves because he was so deep, no need for him to be there at that point. Then Kilman has to hold the ball a relative age to coax Neves into making the run behind the opponent, he could've been pretty much in that position from the off allowing Kilman to play a first time pass and take that guy out of the game.

Compare him to someone like Jorginho, both sit in a conservative midfield position but without being inherently defensive players. The Italian, sort of, backs himself to receive the ball in much tighter areas much more often. He'll often take the ball under pressure and play a blind pass round the corner first time, he's happy to take that risk to help his team break the press where Neves would almost always just shuffle it back to the defence.

He's got a very good range of passing but I don't see a 50-60 yard pass across the field being particularly high risk. Sure it's harder to execute but if it fails the ball is still a long way from your goal with most of your team the right side of it. A 10 yard pass half way inside your own half can be far riskier.

Moutinho is a bit more balanced I think, he doesn't tend to come as deep as often to get on the ball and will often engage the press before the players ahead of him look that arsed about it. He's still not exactly perfect for taking the game to the opposition though, doesn't really push into threatening positions off the ball or play many intricate passes that are going to take opponents out of the game. He'd perhaps be a good steady presence next to someone a bit more ambitious, though they'd still need to be capable of doing their fair share of mucking in too.

It's a team wide issue for me, although you can definitely see improvement in the backline trying to pick play into the feet of the wide forwards this season. People would often rather take an extra touch and lose an opportunity to pass than try to force it through a gap early, Jimenez did that almost every time he had it today. Some players end up getting a bit of grief even when they're on the receiving end of it rather than the cause. Think everytime I saw the ball go to RAN today he was at a standstill by the time he'd received it, no wonder he struggled to go anywhere with it when he never gets a decent pass he can take in his stride and get at people while they're off guard. Looking at Chelsea again, as they play the same shape, look how often they get Chilwell and James flying onto the ball at full pelt and how difficult it is to stop them as a result.

I agree with all of that tbf. But I often thought that it was under instruction why Neves was so deep (under Nuno that is). Maybe it isn’t and you’re right. Certainly makes him more suited to being the DM in a 3 than what he is currently.

The issue with the WBs is that Semedo can’t beat a man or cross, and RAN seems hesitant to do it now for some reason and his delivery is very hit and miss.

 

[SSB]

Awful day. I really hope I don’t have to go to Carrow Road again in the near future. Someone else can have my tickets next time.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

I agree with all of that tbf. But I often thought that it was under instruction why Neves was so deep (under Nuno that is). Maybe it isn’t and you’re right. Certainly makes him more suited to being the DM in a 3 than what he is currently.

The issue with the WBs is that Semedo can’t beat a man or cross, and RAN seems hesitant to do it now for some reason and his delivery is very hit and miss.

I think the only way it disappears as an issue, outside of the player developing and altering his game as a result, is by moving to a back four. It's then more useful to have a midfielder dropping deep and getting involved early in the build up when you haven't got an extra defender there to provide another passing option and it doesn't leave you as hamstrung further up the pitch because you'd have an extra body up there. As long as they play the back three, particularly when Coady is in there with his range of passing, you're going to end up with people treading on one another's toes to some extent and a gap further up the pitch where someone could be doing something more useful.

I'm not Semedo's biggest fan but I do feel for him and RAN when you see the situations they often find themselves in, someone will find them in acres of space with a big switch at times but then they'll have nothing on other than their respective centre half 20 yards behind them, so often their only choice is a safe pass back or trying to go it along and cross it to, at best, one man in the box. They're not helped by the service they receive most of the time either, as mentioned earlier, it's too often a pass into their feet or underhit that causes them to slow down and that kills the impetus. It gives the defender so much advantage when they're receiving the ball stationary with few passing options, the defender can just steam in to press them and they're forced into doing something safe to protect possession rather than look for anything threatening. If they got better service, balls in front of them that they can bomb onto at full pelt then it switches the onus and puts the defender on the back foot straight away, though it would still help to get some better passing options around them too.

 

[Deano]

Have to say I haven't been impressed with Trincao at all as yet. Think he's had one game that sticks out in my mind as being a really good performance but he doesn't seem to be interested in the physical side or helping back defensively. If you've got a player like that they definitely need to be contributing at the other end and he's not doing that either at the moment. Massive luxury player, and we shouldn't be spending anywhere near 25m on him on the evidence hes shown so far.

Performance yesterday in general wasn't great so will take the point, I think a win on Wednesday and we have achieved a really good points haul going into December.

 

[Johnny75]

Have to say I haven't been impressed with Trincao at all as yet. Think he's had one game that sticks out in my mind as being a really good performance but he doesn't seem to be interested in the physical side or helping back defensively. If you've got a player like that they definitely need to be contributing at the other end and he's not doing that either at the moment. Massive luxury player, and we shouldn't be spending anywhere near 25m on him on the evidence hes shown so far.

Performance yesterday in general wasn't great so will take the point, I think a win on Wednesday and we have achieved a really good points haul going into December.

I don’t think either loanee is worth signing. Neto is better than Hwang and Pod better than Trincao.

Spend the money on a CM and CB and get players in that Bruno wants. Of course we need options so use the loan window again to get better players in.

 

[Tredman]

I’d keep Hwang as he’s at least a better option up top than Fabio if we have no Raul.

 

[Carsy]

I don’t think either loanee is worth signing. Neto is better than Hwang and Pod better than Trincao.

Spend the money on a CM and CB and get players in that Bruno wants. Of course we need options so use the loan window again to get better players in.

I’d keep hwang, especially at 14m. We moan about our squad being paper thin so getting rid both of them leaves us with Neto, podence (injury prone) and adama (majority don’t rate him) for the wide positions. Counter productive IMO

 

[Deano]

I don’t think either loanee is worth signing. Neto is better than Hwang and Pod better than Trincao.

Spend the money on a CM and CB and get players in that Bruno wants. Of course we need options so use the loan window again to get better players in.

I think signing Hwang is a bit of a no brainer, he's on 4 goals (a very small margin from that being 5) that kind of goal output is like gold dust when you aren't really getting many goals from elsewhere in the team outside Raul. Plus even if you disregard that and you didn't even want to use him, at 13m you'd be able to flip him immediately for a profit.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

We are getting beaten in the midfield in away games and it seems obvious to me that if we keep going into away games with Neves and Moutinho as a midfield two it will keep happening. Given Hwang and Trincao offered the square root of fuck all going forwards surely sacrificing one of them and reinforcing the midfield makes sense? I don’t think Norwich are nearly as bad as some have made out but nevertheless they will be one of the easier away games we have and if we can only manage 5 shots, which is the fewest Norwich have ever had against them in the PL, something needs changing. It’s not like the chances we created were good ones and the only decent one came from poor defending.

I know players take time to adjust to the PL but I’ve seen nothing to suggest Trincao is cut out for it. He is very weak, doesn’t seem to want to get stuck in and whilst he is clearly talented he only has a left foot. If Xavi really wants him back I’d let him have him. I’m struggling to see how Ryan Giles could have less impact on a game.

 

[Jinky]

The contrast between our away form and our home form is really odd.

Signing Hwang is a no-brainer (agree with whoever said that), but the problem is, when he’s bad, he’s really bad. Trincao looks a couple of years off being physically ready for the league - so whilst he’s a tidy player with obvious talent - he’s just going to get bullied in this league and have large chunks of time where he’s completely anonymous.

I’m worried about our squad heading in to a busy (and extremely difficult) December. With Boly injured, Podence isolating, Neves suspended - and then the likes of Trincao struggling to make an impression - let alone flogging Moutinho in every single game, Bruno is basically left with no options. No element of surprise. And knackered players. It’s far from ideal, which is why him getting us up to 6th as it stands is some achievement.

Really hoping for a win v Burnley before the tough games come thick & fast but if we perform at yesterday’s level, we’ll lose.

 

[AndyWolves]

I think what trincao is missing is what Neto, podence and Jota all have and that's aggression and determination. If he had that he'd be a very good player but without it the PL is going to be tough for him.