Missing Kilman hugely

[C.L.D]

It doesn't look like he's having a better season defensively. Lop seems to have him dribbling with the ball more for some reason.

As been said, we miss him because we didn't replace him and they changed formation so we don't really have an idea on how he'd do, but above stats suggest wouldn't move the needle much.

 

[Shotbybothsides]

I don't think he's Jesus Christ reincarnated by any means, but alongside an old wise head in Dawson he was very good. In that scenario, I suspect his stats would be very different. Its never wise to break up good partnerships, and given our recent pattern of transfers, I had considerable concern that we would fail miserably in bringing in an adequate replacement. Dawson now looks to be struggling, with lower quality partner alongside.

So I'll stick to my opinion that we are missing him a lot.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

When was he very good? It certainly wasn't last season.

 

[Tony Towner]

If Kilman had stayed it would have been him and Mosquera who started the season with Dawson as 4th choice behind Toti. There wouldn't have been a Kilman and Dawson partnership at least to start with.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Kilman had a good first six months under Lage (in a back three) and a decent three months under Lopetegui alongside Dawson, with us playing a very conservative style with two DMs parked right in front of the back four and Toti often at LB never going forward.

Otherwise he was either a fringe player who looked way below the quality of those in the team, or was shite. Him and Collins together was a disaster and he was all over the place last season whoever he played with.

 

[Shotbybothsides]

He certainly splits opinion, looking at West Ham forum, their comments are as polar-opposite as ours.........

✍️ Welcome Max Kilman - Page 14 - Knees up Mother Brown Forum:

www.kumb.com

 

[The Dude]

We're not missing Kilman. We have a Kilman shaped hole in the squad that could and indeed should have been filled.

We received an offer too good to turn down. An offer so good it should have been a cinch to replace him with just some of the proceeds...

We also received an offer too good to turn down for Hwang, incredibly we didn't accept it.

£20m could have been used to great effect in the right hands, it doesn't appear the right hands are at the club anymore though.

 

[The Dude]

He certainly splits opinion, looking at West Ham forum, their comments are as polar-opposite as ours.........

✍️ Welcome Max Kilman - Page 14 - Knees up Mother Brown Forum:

www.kumb.com

This guy gets it;

"Based purely on ability, you're probably looking at a 20m player in this current day and age.

Add English tax and a an impeccable fitness record, you can stick a additional 10m to his price tag. The rest is overspend.

Wolves fans were doing somersaults when they got 40m for him & are rightly outraged that hardly any of that have been invested back into the squad.

He will do a decent job for us over the next couple of seasons I feel, in a similar way to a James Tomkins. Solid enough with a fair few mistakes thrown in"

 

[Shotbybothsides]

Absolutely, but just because that bloke shares your opinion doesn't make it fact.
Others are more complimentary.
I agree the big mistake was not replacing him, but not only did we sell him and break up a good partnership, we put untried CBs in to replace him. If Kilman was still here, he would in my opinion have been ahead of Mosquera.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Which good partnership?

He and Dawson looked alright under Lopetegui but bloody awful under O'Neil in a back four.

 

[The Dude]

Absolutely, but just because that bloke shares your opinion doesn't make it fact.
Others are more complimentary.
I agree the big mistake was not replacing him, but not only did we sell him and break up a good partnership, we put untried CBs in to replace him. If Kilman was still here, he would in my opinion have been ahead of Mosquera.

I love how you dismiss others opinions, then pass your own opinion off as fact lol.

What good partnership did we break up exactly? We shipped 65 PL goals last season! Max was central in more than one way to a mediocre (at best) defence (only 5 teams conceded more). How are those for FACTS?

Most could see our best CB was Dawson, whom without would most likely have seen us relegated in '23. Max in my opinion was just about the third best defender (out of five) in a mediocre (at best) defence.

Are we worse without him? Yes, undeniably so.

Is it indefensible to have not spent a decent chunk of his transfer fee on suring up our leaky defence? Absofuckinglutely.

 

[Wolftone]

A bigger problem for me are the 'full backs'. Balls crossed in on the floor and to the back post are always going to give centre backs massive problems. That's now exacerbated with Johnstone wearing lead diving boots on the goal line

 

[Wolftone]

We've got problems to solve all over the pitch. No coherence between any department. Total mess. Gone from a captain who did no organising to one who's can't organise.

 

[The Dude]

A bigger problem for me are the 'full backs'. Balls crossed in on the floor and to the back post are always going to give centre backs massive problems. That's now exacerbated with Johnstone wearing lead diving boots on the goal line

RAN can't defend. Really he's a winger, maybe a WB but definitely not a FB.

Semedo, despite his attributes has in the past looked more comfortable as a FB, however he's not looked very comfortable this season...

Every good season he's had was preceded by a bad one, as such a good season is followed by a poor one. His form so far this season follows that trend.

There is a lot of attention being given to shortcomings at CB and rightly so, but the entire defence is culpable, as is the midfield "protecting" them.

Changes are needed. If anyone thinks retaining a back four with the current personnel and manager at our disposal then I despair...

Anyone bemoaning the fact we'd lose an attacker and dull our potency upfront can't honestly believe that having to score 3 or 4 goals a game just to stay in it is sustainable...

Back to basics, three at the back with three midfielders in a low block protecting them. RAN and Semedo offering width and Cunha and Strand Larson up top.

Time to tighten up and shithouse our way out of this.

 

[Johnny75]

I don't know where this myth has come from that RAN can't defend which just isn't true.

I've seen him lock Mo Salah down so he can do it and do it well.

For some reason GoLage hasn't coached a single defender or asked them to defend (pressing is not defending) in the whole time that he's been here.

 

[Wolftone]

RAN can't defend. Really he's a winger, maybe a WB but definitely not a FB.

Semedo, despite his attributes has in the past looked more comfortable as a FB, however he's not looked very comfortable this season...

Every good season he's had was preceded by a bad one, as such a good season is followed by a poor one. His form so far this season follows that trend.

There is a lot of attention being given to shortcomings at CB and rightly so, but the entire defence is culpable, as is the midfield "protecting" them.

Changes are needed. If anyone thinks retaining a back four with the current personnel and manager at our disposal then I despair...

Anyone bemoaning the fact we'd lose an attacker and dull our potency upfront can't honestly believe that having to score 3 or 4 goals a game just to stay in it is sustainable...

Back to basics, three at the back with three midfielders in a low block protecting them. RAN and Semedo offering width and Cunha and Strand Larson up top.

Time to tighten up and shithouse our way out of this.

Basically I agree. I might give Lima half an hour or so with that formation as well. Don't see we have much to lose at present.
I admit it does all sound a bit horseshoe of doom though.

 

[The Dude]

Basically I agree. I might give Lima half an hour or so with that formation as well. Don't see we have much to lose at present.
I admit it does all sound a bit horseshoe of doom though.

It absolutely does, but you're burying your head in the sand if you think this squad has the players for a back four...

If we were to continue with a back four the best we can put out is;

Semedo Bueno Dawson Toti.

It's not good enough. Our best LB is Toti. I quite like Toti, but as cover. He's useful being okay in two positions when required, but he's now the best defending LB we have. It's just so fucking shit, it's almost funny.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Taking Saturday's XI, I do not think putting Santi Bueno in for Carlos Forbs is the silver bullet some would have it as.

 

[Carsy]

I don't know where this myth has come from that RAN can't defend which just isn't true.

I've seen him lock Mo Salah down so he can do it and do it well.

For some reason GoLage hasn't coached a single defender or asked them to defend (pressing is not defending) in the whole time that he's been here.

He can defend, not sure if it’s more concentration with him? As you said, he basically pockets Salah every time…

Not adverse to going 3/5 at the back, 3 in midfield and play JSL and Cunha up top similarly to Jota/Raul. Obviously the midfield 3 have very different attribute to neves,mout etc.

We do miss kilman, in the sense that he wasn’t replaced. Not is the sense of he’s a quality CB. He’s a mid/low premier league centre half at best IMV. Naturally would get into our 11 with 3atb currently.

 

[Tony Towner]

Taking Saturday's XI, I do not think putting Santi Bueno in for Carlos Forbs is the silver bullet some would have it as.

It'd be Lemina for me. It's not a silver bullet and against City it'll make little difference either way. We have to do something though and the club have decided that's not sacking the manager, so while he's here we have to try and stop conceding 3 a game and that's not going to suddenly come from coaching a back 4.