Matt Doherty

[The Dude]

Again, I'll remind people that Doherty was third choice for Nuno's bespoke right wing-back role, which, yes, he did well in when we played it. But that's like re-signing the second coming of Bully and playing him as a winger - he'd have been awful at it.

Wha? He was first choice playing almost every single minute in the PL!

 

[Kenny]

Wha? He was first choice playing almost every single minute in the PL!

He means at the start of Nuno's time at the club.

Signed a RWB, he broke, tried to convert a RW into a RWB he didn't fancy it. Doc then took the role and ran with it and made it his own.

 

[Law's Bus]

Wha? He was first choice playing almost every single minute in the PL!

He was Nuno's third choice to play that role.

German Phil and Jordan Graham were Nuno's first and second choices to play RWB. For different reasons (instantly breaking and a refusal to play), Nuno then had to move onto his third choice of Doherty.

Doherty got very lucky, but then as others have said, made the most of that opportunity and deserves credit for that. However, it was a VERY different role to that which he was terrible at previously, and the scepticism is around that original role returning where he was awful, not the one he was not bad at all at.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

He was Nuno's third choice to play that role.

German Phil and Jordan Graham were Nuno's first and second choices to play RWB.

He did sign Ofosu-Ayeh and we know from Graham's own mouth he was asked to play there.

But to suggest they were both 100% ahead of Doherty in the pecking order in Nuno's mind and not all just competition for that RWB place is conjecture, not fact.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

It's testament to what a quality manager Nuno is that he designed exactly that role for that player after watching him for no more than a couple of weeks. Because as a standard RWB, the way it's been used conventionally by hundreds of teams with hundreds of players over the last 30 years, he's still not really suitable (again, Spurs and Ireland have used him that way, the way that we used Jamie Smith for example under McGhee, and he can't do any of it properly).

 

[PuntsWolf]

There’s a lot of nonsense each way on this thread, but trying to claim Doc was third choice is probably right at the top.

No one has any clue who was first and second choices. Graham was asked to play RWB as there was no role for him anywhere else. I highly doubt a career winger was earmarked to be the starter.

Likewise German Phil was signed as a free transfer punt at 26 from the German second tier with no career to speak of at any kind of level.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

There’s a lot of nonsense each way on this thread, but trying to claim Doc was third choice is probably right at the top.

No one has any clue who was first and second choices. Graham was asked to play RWB as there was no role for him anywhere else. I highly doubt a career winger was earmarked to be the starter.

Likewise German Phil was signed as a free transfer punt at 26 from the German second tier with no career to speak of at any kind of level.

Of course, we'll never know for sure. But it does happen, there's no way Kilman was anything like first choice for Lage in pre-season 2021. Then it became apparent that his shit tactics made us look like a terrible League One team if we tried four at the back, and he STILL wasn't first choice in a back three until Mosquera got injured in one of the final friendlies, after Boly had got injured in the very first friendly. Then he played well and deservedly kept the shirt (incidentally for all my issues with Kilman, I wouldn't have much of a problem with him in a back three either. But we don't play a back three)

 

[PuntsWolf]

Of course, we'll never know for sure. But it does happen, there's no way Kilman was anything like first choice for Lage in pre-season 2021. Then it became apparent that his shit tactics made us look like a terrible League One team if we tried four at the back, and he STILL wasn't first choice in a back three until Mosquera got injured in one of the final friendlies, after Boly had got injured in the very first friendly. Then he played well and deservedly kept the shirt (incidentally for all my issues with Kilman, I wouldn't have much of a problem with him in a back three either. But we don't play a back three)

Yeah but that you could argue that as some left/right balance or Lage just being a twat. Or simply Kilman not been given a real chance. Like tons of players it’s right place right time which can be difference between a career in non league or a well paid professional.

The odds of a career winger who had barely played any football anywhere being auto first choice WB is nonsense. As is a mid twenties free agent from 2. Bundesliga who spent all his career at that level or lower is too. In all likelihood they were backup options.

We can just say Doc was historically a shit RB. He is unathletic, hasn’t been a great 1v1 defender and those traits don’t tend to lead to success in this league. There’s enough there without the need to start making shit up

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I still maintain that the statement "Matt Doherty would make a really good RWB" would not have gone down well in May 2017 Because you associate that position traditionally with pace, great stamina and good crossing ability, none of which he has or has ever had. Nuno used what he had brilliantly and of course Doc deserves a lot of credit for signing up to it and the returns he produced. But it had run its course by 2020 (for me, anyway, and Nuno seemed to be of the same mind), no-one has played him in that bespoke role ever since, and I'd wager no-one will ever play him there again. You have to shift so many moving parts around to accommodate it and for a 31 year old who's likely to be going one way physically, it isn't worth it.

 

[PuntsWolf]

I still maintain that the statement "Matt Doherty would make a really good RWB" would not have gone down well in May 2017 Because you associate that position traditionally with pace, great stamina and good crossing ability, none of which he has or has ever had. Nuno used what he had brilliantly and of course Doc deserves a lot of credit for signing up to it and the returns he produced. But it had run its course by 2020 (for me, anyway, and Nuno seemed to be of the same mind), no-one has played him in that bespoke role ever since, and I'd wager no-one will ever play him there again. You have to shift so many moving parts around to accommodate it and for a 31 year old who's likely to be going one way physically, it isn't worth it.

He is great at making runs getting in behind in positions where he simply has to cut it back or even shoot himself. That is why we doesn’t need to “cross”. For some reason Semedo cannot do it (make any kind of attacking run), and even when he had that spell of making straight line runs and being in acres of space in on goal, he couldn’t seem to kick it in a straight line goalbound.

Let’s not pretend he doesn’t have some qualities, let’s not make up stuff to make him shitter when there plenty out there to beat him with (just everyone in general, not you).

He will most likely he rubbish for the obvious reasons, and as a result probably will end up not playing and Elvedi (if not him we will sign someone) will probably get shunted there if needed. Buts Let’s just wait and see. He might have some use in the last 10 when we’re a goal down throwing caution to the wind and worst case he’s a cheaper than Jonny, HG and Better than him too.

 

[The Dude]

That hardly makes him third choice. Jordan Graham wasn't gonna play anywhere else. Even if he fancied it, history shows us he'd have found it hard to dislodge Doc.

Because Nuno was in the hot seat when Phil signed doesn't mean he was a nailed on starter. The likes of Bennett, Norris, Miranda, Vinagre, N'Diaye all took their time cementing themselves or just falling by the wayside.

 

[Alan]

Nuno was in the hotseat when Phil signed? Didn't they arrive in the same offseason?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Nuno was in the hotseat when Phil signed? Didn't they arrive in the same offseason?

Phil signed around 2 weeks after Nuno came in.

 

[The Dude]

That hardly makes him third choice. Jordan Graham wasn't gonna play anywhere else. Even if he fancied it, history shows us he'd have found it hard to dislodge Doc.

Because Nuno was in the hot seat when Phil signed doesn't mean he was a nailed on starter. The likes of Bennett, Norris, Miranda, Vinagre, N'Diaye all took their time cementing themselves or just falling by the wayside.

 

[The Dude]

Phil signed around 2 weeks after Nuno came in.

Solid proof then that Nuno had been scouting him for years and got him in quick smart on a free.

The same Nuno who insisted on getting Bennett and Ruddy through the door on free's too. He loved a bargain.

Apparently all three were headed for Porto before Nuno was shown the door. Of course I'm talking bollocks, I'm fitting in well so far.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

But you do know there's zero indication whatsoever that we're going to play wingbacks under Lopetegui, let alone the kind of wingback role Doherty had from 2017-2020.

And presumably you've seen him play at RB for us if not other teams.

So with that in mind how is this a good idea, especially on a three year deal, and do you intend to only ever post about Matt Doherty and nothing else?

 

[Johnny75]

But you do know there's zero indication whatsoever that we're going to play wingbacks under Lopetegui, let alone the kind of wingback role Doherty had from 2017-2020.

And presumably you've seen him play at RB for us if not other teams.

So with that in mind how is this a good idea, especially on a three year deal, and do you intend to only ever post about Matt Doherty and nothing else?

I'm not entirely sure they have ever watched a Wolves game.

 

[The Dude]

But you do know there's zero indication whatsoever that we're going to play wingbacks under Lopetegui, let alone the kind of wingback role Doherty had from 2017-2020.

And presumably you've seen him play at RB for us if not other teams.

So with that in mind how is this a good idea, especially on a three year deal, and do you intend to only ever post about Matt Doherty and nothing else?

I'm here purely for Matt Doherty, yes.

I absolutely have reservations about his signing, especially as a RB and not a RWB.

Although RB ahead of Semedo doesn't worry me, it's a very low bar.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Except he was a worse RB than Dom Iorfa and Conor Coady in the Championship, in his mid 20s. What have you seen since to suggest he's an acceptable Premier League option in 2023, when he's going to be 32 soon?

 

[Alan]

Except he was a worse RB than Dom Iorfa and Conor Coady in the Championship, in his mid 20s. What have you seen since to suggest he's an acceptable Premier League option in 2023, when he's going to be 32 soon?

"Well Dan, one thing you have to say, he knows the league".