Live Match Discussion 2023/24

[Elephant Pyjamas]

, apart from someone punching it off the line or Keith Gillespie, who ever does that totally on purpose.

And that's how it should be.

Getting a penalty for a ricochet like that is bullshit, its just luck, Saliba has done absolutely nothing wrong there, and Chelsea have done nothing skilful or "good" to win a penalty, that is the nonsense.

 

[BillyDee]

UEFA's recommendations for this season for all competitions across Europe were for a deflection to not be a handball.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

And that's how it should be.

Getting a penalty for a ricochet like that is bullshit, its just luck, Saliba has done absolutely nothing wrong there.

Doesn't work though does it.

Did Michael Keane deliberately handball it in the lunchtime game, no, is it a penalty, 100% yes.

 

[Jack Regan]

UEFA's recommendations for this season for all competitions across Europe were for a deflection to not be a handball.

Wasn't a deflection though, it was header at goal from Mudryk.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Doesn't work though does it.

Did Michael Keane deliberately handball it in the lunchtime game, no, is it a penalty, 100% yes.

Haven't seen it yet.

But why doesn't it work? If it just hits a hand like that it shouldn't give the opposition an 80% opportunity to score.

Why should it be such a huge penalisation? It's just not the equivalent of a player getting brought down in the box.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

There you go.

Try telling me that's a) deliberate or b) not a penalty.

If you can't then your criteria don't work.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I just think a penalty for something so clearly lucky/accidental/not deliberate which gives the opponent an 80% chance to score is too huge, don't you?

The "well that's how it's always been" argument is crap really isn't it?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Not for me. Keep your big flapping arms out of the way.

You saying that Keane one isn't a penalty?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Not for me. Keep your big flapping arms out of the way.

You saying that Keane one isn't a penalty?

I haven't seen anything other than that still - and by the current laws the Saliba one definitely is, but I don't think a non deliberate hand ball should have such a huge punishment - basically a goal.

The attacking team haven't done anything to "earn" that penalty and the defending team haven't done anything wrong to concede. It's just pure luck, that's not football.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

You could argue that loads of fouls are accidental.

'I didn't mean to catch Pedro Neto, he was just too quick'. Oh OK, crack on then. I don't think so.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

You could argue that loads of fouls are accidental.

'I didn't mean to catch Pedro Neto, he was just too quick'. Oh OK, crack on then. I don't think so.

But that's different, a player draws a foul by being skilfull or quick, or a defender from mistiming his tackle or being slow means he fouls an attacker.

Just having arms isn't a mistake.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

OK. Watch MOTD later and tell me that isn't a penalty

It was a penalty 30 years ago.

He didn't deliberately handle it.

 

[Wolf Hunting]

I've seen this 'the team did nothing to 'earn' the penalty a couple of times today and I can't agree with the sentiment.
Regardless of whether you've been banging on the door for 87 minutes, had 85% possession and are losing 1-0, it doesn't matter.
His arm looks to be in a natural position but it is away from his body, he could have made that attempted block with his arm tucked in and he controlled the ball. so I think it's a penalty. And I think it's pretty clear.
The one we had awarded against us the other week when it hit his arm after coming off his boot was not a foul. This I think is.
Also, I'm not too sure about the 'deliberate' aspect of it.
I think it was a fairly natural position of his arms given his trying to block, but he COULD have done a similar move with his arm tucked in a bit.
But he didn't, and the ball hit his arm and he controlled it.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

OK. Watch MOTD later and tell me that isn't a penalty

It was a penalty 30 years ago.

He didn't deliberately handle it.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be a penalty under the current laws.

I'm saying the laws are bollocks.

The ball hitting Saliba's arm tonight after it cannoned off Mudryk 1 foot in front of him should not result in the same punishment as deliberately (or not) bringing someone down as they are about to score, should they?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Then you think the laws have forever been bollocks. Because that's 100% a penalty in 1993 or 1983.

 

[BillyDee]

Well the second one gets a red card.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Then you think the laws have forever been bollocks. Because that's 100% a penalty in 1993 or 1983.

Yes.

I don't think the Saliba one gets given 20 years ago though, or even pre VAR.

 

[jd1981]

Fotheringham very statuesque

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Another law that seems all arse end up is only getting an indirect free kick when a keeper deliberately picks up or handles a pass back - quite often it's denying a goal scoring opportunity when it happens too.

Or maybe i'm still bitter from Russell Hault (DW?) doing it to stop us scoring at the Hawthorns years ago.

 

[AndyWolves]

I'm not saying it shouldn't be a penalty under the current laws.

I'm saying the laws are bollocks.

The ball hitting Saliba's arm tonight after it cannoned off Mudryk 1 foot in front of him should not result in the same punishment as deliberately (or not) bringing someone down as they are about to score, should they?

FWIW I think that whenever a shot / attempt on goal is blocked by a hand it's a default penalty, whether it's intentional/ deflected whatever. Players aren't allowed to use their hands, and the defending team gains an unfair advantage by doing so.