• Welcome, guest!

    This is a forum devoted to discussion of Wolverhampton Wanderers.
    Why not sign up and contribute? Registered members get a fully ad-free experience!

Lettuce Liz then Tetchy Rish! and the battle to replace him

What a great day for the nation. From now on it doesn't matter if a certain East African country is involved in a war, a civil war, decides to shoot at innocent protesters, brings in laws that discriminates against its population etc etc etc it shall forever be deemed to be safe by the UK as our current government says so.
Brilliant!
 
EpsomWolf said:
We’re already seeing the manifestation of the fear of the removal. Gove is realising it’s ridiculous to remove it without a balanced alternative and AR is heading down a blind alley if she does the same despite the good PR and intentions.

The surge in rental prices is already abundantly clear for everyone to see created by short supply as landlords offload properties by the bucketload. Basic yields are very high (approaching 10% and rising rapidly) yet even cash investors are unwilling to entertain such returns never mind capitalising on discounted properties, when control is relinquished and you’re potentially facing a nightmare scenario.

With interest rates so high it’s not even as though potential owner-occupiers can capitalise and get on the housing ladder either. Not suggesting something didn’t need to be done and the desire to shift properties from assets to homes is very admirable, but this was all very predictable unfortunately.

There are other factors such as tax changes and impending 2025 legislation, but the S21 removal without a workable alternative is nonsense in the extreme and destabilising in a way that is negatively affecting everybody.
Click to expand...

Why do no fault evictions terrify everyone, they are illegal in Germany and there's no problem here. But we also don't have short term or term limited tenancies, those are pretty rare, so when you rent a property you tend to treat it as your own home which is better both for landlords and tenants.

That said some landlords are using tricks to move to more exploitative models
 
Last edited:
EdgeOfTheAlps said:
Why do no fault evictions terrify everyone, they are legal in Germany and there's no problem here. But we also don't have short term or term limited tenancies, those are pretty rare, so when you rent a property you tend to treat it as your own home which is better both for landlords and tenants.

That said some landlords are using tricks to move to more exploitative models
Click to expand...

From a tenants perspective the removal of S21 gives security. Mostly it stops landlords evicting tenants who complain about perfectly justifiable things such as no heating or hot water for example. Many tenants put up with terrible conditions through fear of a simple S21 dropping through their letterbox at any time. Perfectly reasonable to think that needs dealing with.

I’ll give a couple of real case examples of instances I’ve been involved in which show the potential nightmare side of the removal of S21 and how it is playing out right now. Many, many landlords are in this situation:

Landlord opts out and decides to sell (Removal of S21, tax changes, 2025 legislation etc etc etc) meaning by no measure is the sector financially viable never mind the increased risk with loss of control.
Landlord has reasonable tenant who pays on time.
Landlord has no choice but to issue S21 2 months notice

Tenant says:
Tenant looks at options
Tenant can’t afford to rent elsewhere, circumstances have changed (cost of living, job loss, etc etc)
Tenant ask council if there is any housing available
Council says they won’t help unless tenant is homeless
Council ADVISES (IS ADVISING all people in this situation) to tell landlord they are not moving and to wait until they are evicted through the courts. On the day of eviction they effectively become the council’s problem so will provide assistance (conditional to circumstances, children etc). Assistance being hostel/hotel/ other housing depending upon circumstances.

To be clear here council’s are advising tenants of tactical strategies (I have this first hand) in how to prolong legal cases and draw them out as long as possible (how to avoid paying rent whilst not breaching conditions undermining S21 case (making small alternate month payments, thus not triggering the 2 months non payment clause etc, etc, etc.. and a whole load of other technicalities too).

As said previously, S21 needed refining and I do have issues with property used as assets not homes, but ditching it altogether was always going to be catastrophic. Even the most anti-landlord, anti-capitalist person would realise it would make no sense whatsoever for anyone to have funds tied up in something someone else had complete control of.

I understand the long game and maybe we will one day arrive at a point housing is used in the way it should be, but unless I’m mistaken that would require a healthy rental market too. I don’t see how any of that is achievable without a huge building program which in reality is never going to happen, but that’s the bigger picture problem.

The landlords will eventually move on but it’s the tenants bearing the brunt as usual and unfortunately their problems are looking like they are going to get a whole lot worse. I suspect a tweak to S21 would restore some balance and bring stability which would be the sensible option but for the politicians and most certainly AR, this is a point of principle and there’s no turning back.

I just find it unforgivable that well intended policies should manifest themselves in such disaster. Sadly a very rocky road ahead.
 
EpsomWolf said:
As said previously, S21 needed refining and I do have issues with property used as assets not homes, but ditching it altogether was always going to be catastrophic. Even the most anti-landlord, anti-capitalist person would realise it would make no sense whatsoever for anyone to have funds tied up in something someone else had complete control of.
Click to expand...

As a tenant who can afford a mortgage for twice the valuation of my current home and half my monthly rent I can't because I haven't got a pile of cash because it goes out in rent. The bold bit is exactly how I feel. It's swings and roundabouts.
 
To be fair, mortgages aren't half monthly rents anymore, not since Truss had her wicked way with the economy.
 
Derby Wolf said:
As a tenant who can afford a mortgage for twice the valuation of my current home and half my monthly rent I can't because I haven't got a pile of cash because it goes out in rent. The bold bit is exactly how I feel. It's swings and roundabouts.
Click to expand...
I’m not disagreeing with you.

That’s a trap a lot of people find themselves in. A few escape by fortunate virtue of family support or moving back in with mum and dad to save, but I honestly don’t know what you do without those sort of options.

It’s very frustrating that with high interest rates people are not able to capitalise on offloaded stock as owner occupiers in the way they should.

It’s a very depressed market and the few that are able to break out could do very well indeed. That’s not much help to the majority but as mentioned this whole thing is making things worse not better.
 
Conservative response (as with everything). - Labour has no plan for (insert subject)

That’s the best they can do
 
EpsomWolf said:
From a tenants perspective the removal of S21 gives security. Mostly it stops landlords evicting tenants who complain about perfectly justifiable things such as no heating or hot water for example. Many tenants put up with terrible conditions through fear of a simple S21 dropping through their letterbox at any time. Perfectly reasonable to think that needs dealing with.

I’ll give a couple of real case examples of instances I’ve been involved in which show the potential nightmare side of the removal of S21 and how it is playing out right now. Many, many landlords are in this situation:

Landlord opts out and decides to sell (Removal of S21, tax changes, 2025 legislation etc etc etc) meaning by no measure is the sector financially viable never mind the increased risk with loss of control.
Landlord has reasonable tenant who pays on time.
Landlord has no choice but to issue S21 2 months notice

Tenant says:
Tenant looks at options
Tenant can’t afford to rent elsewhere, circumstances have changed (cost of living, job loss, etc etc)
Tenant ask council if there is any housing available
Council says they won’t help unless tenant is homeless
Council ADVISES (IS ADVISING all people in this situation) to tell landlord they are not moving and to wait until they are evicted through the courts. On the day of eviction they effectively become the council’s problem so will provide assistance (conditional to circumstances, children etc). Assistance being hostel/hotel/ other housing depending upon circumstances.

To be clear here council’s are advising tenants of tactical strategies (I have this first hand) in how to prolong legal cases and draw them out as long as possible (how to avoid paying rent whilst not breaching conditions undermining S21 case (making small alternate month payments, thus not triggering the 2 months non payment clause etc, etc, etc.. and a whole load of other technicalities too).

As said previously, S21 needed refining and I do have issues with property used as assets not homes, but ditching it altogether was always going to be catastrophic. Even the most anti-landlord, anti-capitalist person would realise it would make no sense whatsoever for anyone to have funds tied up in something someone else had complete control of.

I understand the long game and maybe we will one day arrive at a point housing is used in the way it should be, but unless I’m mistaken that would require a healthy rental market too. I don’t see how any of that is achievable without a huge building program which in reality is never going to happen, but that’s the bigger picture problem.

The landlords will eventually move on but it’s the tenants bearing the brunt as usual and unfortunately their problems are looking like they are going to get a whole lot worse. I suspect a tweak to S21 would restore some balance and bring stability which would be the sensible option but for the politicians and most certainly AR, this is a point of principle and there’s no turning back.

I just find it unforgivable that well intended policies should manifest themselves in such disaster. Sadly a very rocky road ahead.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the lengthy reply. I made quite the typo error in my post, no-fault evictions are NOT legal here.

I guess the whole approach has to be different as house prices here are severalfold higher than in the UK so renting is seen as the long-term/permanent option rather than a stop-gap to home ownership as it was in the UK a few years ago.
 
EdgeOfTheAlps said:
Thanks for the lengthy reply. I made quite the typo error in my post, no-fault evictions are NOT legal here.

I guess the whole approach has to be different as house prices here are severalfold higher than in the UK so renting is seen as the long-term/permanent option rather than a stop-gap to home ownership as it was in the UK a few years ago.
Click to expand...

I think home ownership aspiration is built into the psyche of people here. I’m not sure why the Germans are so readily accepting of something the British would hate, that seems a bit odd to me, but if it’s working there a mindset change here might not be a bad thing.

Anyway, it does look like there’s a bit of a shakedown at the moment. The sort of hybrid model we’ve got is evidently at crisis point and going to be interesting to see where we go from here. I don’t think it’s ever going to be possible to ‘build’ our way out of this problem and efforts such as a % of new build developments being ‘affordable’ barely scratch the surface.

There needs to be a difficult conversation about “affordable” / “low cost” housing. Unfortunately there is no such thing, only “subsidised”. On the % new builds front that subsidy is coming from the developers and the other home owners which has merit and generally supported. Increase those %’s to levels required and the projects are no longer viable.

I’m sure the planners have much more knowledge of population growth and housing requirements than me, but a % of new-builds being offered as ‘affordable’ (subsidised) plus some landlords abandoning the sector is pissing in the wind. Where the rest of the housing is coming from and who is supposed to be paying the subsidy is something we should all be watching with interest.
 
Derby Wolf said:
As a tenant who can afford a mortgage for twice the valuation of my current home and half my monthly rent I can't because I haven't got a pile of cash because it goes out in rent. The bold bit is exactly how I feel. It's swings and roundabouts.
Click to expand...
My parents had to limit their social life to save for a mortgage deposit. You can imagine their quiet annoyance when thatcher sold off the nation's social housing on the cheap to people who had never had to save.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Hereford Wolf
Broken Bones in foot
Replies
6
Views
378
Deutsch Wolf
Deutsch Wolf
S
Missing Kilman hugely
3 4 5
Replies
90
Views
3K
Langers
Langers
G
Chelsea Tickets
Replies
8
Views
750
pagey
pagey
KiwiWolf61
Top 20 Wolves Goals: 2000s (1999/00-2008/09)
2 3
Replies
53
Views
1K
jlo
jlo
S
Wolves Prospectus: A Stat and Chart Heavy Look at the Season
2
Replies
32
Views
2K
Johnny75
Johnny75
Back
Top