Lettuce Liz then Tetchy Rish! and the battle to replace him

[Tredman]

 

[leedswolf]

From Lettuce Liz's jottings;

 

[Kenny]

Accidental Partridge!

 

[leedswolf]

 

[Sniffer]

I'm sad enough to have listened to two of her interviews from yesterday. Any points that she tries to make to defend herself are an incoherent mess and how she got anywhere near the levers of power in this country is the biggest failure of our institutions.Lots of blame on the Governor of the Bank of England (she calls for him to be sacked) and the Office of Budget Responsibility without a scintilla of remorse for the actions of her and Kwasi Kwarteng. I find it bizarre at the ire thrown at the OBR when all they are doing is producing a report (or not as she didn't think it necessary for the mini-budget) based upon the figures given to them by the Treasury. As for comments such as "We're a free country, we shouldn't be telling people not to smoke" perhaps shes too thick to realise that it goes against any Government advice from the last 50 years.

 

[sycophantia]

I'm sad enough to have listened to two of her interviews from yesterday. Any points that she tries to make to defend herself are an incoherent mess and how she got anywhere near the levers of power in this country is the biggest failure of our institutions.Lots of blame on the Governor of the Bank of England (she calls for him to be sacked) and the Office of Budget Responsibility without a scintilla of remorse for the actions of her and Kwasi Kwarteng. I find it bizarre at the ire thrown at the OBR when all they are doing is producing a report (or not as she didn't think it necessary for the mini-budget) based upon the figures given to them by the Treasury. As for comments such as "We're a free country, we shouldn't be telling people not to smoke" perhaps shes too thick to realise that it goes against any Government advice from the last 50 years.

Agree eith everything you've said, she also wants the rest of the world to ostracise China and not deal with them, that's fine from a moral viewpoint but completely bonkers from a world economy pov.
On the smoking ban, while yes it would be nice to eliminate from society, is it even feasible never mind how do you police it?

 

[Sniffer]

Agree eith everything you've said, she also wants the rest of the world to ostracise China and not deal with them, that's fine from a moral viewpoint but completely bonkers from a world economy pov.
On the smoking ban, while yes it would be nice to eliminate from society, is it even feasible never mind how do you police it?

Going forward the legal age limit rises each year so therefore at some point you'll need ID to buy them. How you stop shopkeepers ignoring it or police ensuring that they are adhering to the rules is going to be difficult though.

 

[lemonjelly]

I'm 100% in favour of the proposals on smoking tbh. As pointed out in the below, the evidence shows the black market for tobacco products will actually fall, not increase, owing to reduced demand.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...apes-bill-mps-disease-inequality-chris-whitty

The tobacco industry, which is very wealthy, is the one winner from the death and disease induced by its products. Its talking points, usually introduced by paid lobbyists, need to be addressed head on. It tries to link its products to “choice”, despite the fact sales are based on addiction (taking choice away). It always claims illegal cigarette sales will go up with new control measures, despite evidence that they actually go down (due to reduced demand). It makes a big thing about age cutoffs for its products, but public health measures have always been based on various age cutoffs, including screening and vaccination. It tries to pass off new tobacco products as “safe”, as it did with “low tar cigarettes” and cigarette filters – but no tobacco products are safe.

 

[Sniffer]

Truss speaks in Parliament.....

The reason I’m speaking today is I’m very concerned that this policy putting being put forward is emblematic of a technocratic establishment in this country that wants to limit people’s freedom. And I think that is a problem.
My real fear is that this is not the final stage that the health police want to push … They want to be able to make their own decisions about what they eat, what they drink, and how they enjoy themselves.

It is a Conservative Prime Minister who has bought the legislation to the House. It isn't technocrats, it isn't the health police and I'm sure that if smoking was acceptable as part of balanced lifestyle and diet it wouldn't be getting debated today. It kills people and it costs the state a fortune. She'll be advocating open speed limits on residential roads before long.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Has she stopped to consider why we don't have tobacco adverts on TV or tobacco billboards on streets any more and why they're banned from sports sponsorship (was still absolutely everywhere well into the 1990s) and why you don't have smoking rooms in offices now (we had one when I started at HBOS in 2003) and why you can't smoke in pubs and restaurants or on trains any more, what that has done to cause a decline in smoking.

Of course she hasn't.

 

[Sniffer]

It’s amazing how most of those speaking about freedom of choice in the smoking debate are the same ones who took away my freedom of choice to move around Europe.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

And to use their own stupid warped arguments, if you put this single issue to a public referendum then it'd pass by a lot more than 52-48.

 

[Tony Towner]

I've never smoked in my life, but there does seem to be some hypocrisy where booze is concerned. Doesn't that kill more people directly or indirectly than smoking there days?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I suppose the difference is:

a) There is an amount of alcohol you can drink regularly with negligible or no impact on your health. There is no amount of smoking where that applies

b) Alcohol is nowhere near as physically addictive as nicotine

c) You aren't harming anyone else's health if you drink 5 yards away from them, you are if you smoke 5 yards away from someone

 

[Boozad]

As a massively hypocritical reformed smoker I’m all behind seeing it phased out completely. It’s a vile habit in so many ways. One thing I’ve noticed (mainly at work, there are a lot of people there so it’s not a minute sample size) is that the average age of smokers is going up at a fair rate which is a good thing.

The flip side is the amount of younger people who are taking up vaping, I do vape but it’s the crutch that helped me stop smoking and my aim is to stop that eventually, but that’s really all it should be. I’ve no idea why people who’ve never smoked would want to take it up.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Because they target it at impressionable kids and can advertise anywhere they want, like at Wolves.

 

[Lupo]

From what I see of those that swap smoking for vaping, most never give up vaping plus they always have a vape in their hand puffing away where as they finish a cigarette and don't have another for a bit.

Regarding teens vaping despite never smoking, seems to be the new 'cool' thing to do and easier to conceal as unlike fags they don't make them stink and they taste nice. I don't know why they don't make vapes taste vile so that only those who really need them use them rather than kids liking the taste of watermelon flavoured vapour

 

[sycophantia]

As a massively hypocritical reformed smoker I’m all behind seeing it phased out completely. It’s a vile habit in so many ways. One thing I’ve noticed (mainly at work, there are a lot of people there so it’s not a minute sample size) is that the average age of smokers is going up at a fair rate which is a good thing.

The flip side is the amount of younger people who are taking up vaping, I do vape but it’s the crutch that helped me stop smoking and my aim is to stop that eventually, but that’s really all it should be. I’ve no idea why people who’ve never smoked would want to take it up.

Vaping concerns me more than smoking (I don't like either). As a crutch to get off tobacco I see the point of it, as you say a lot of young people are vaping, not as a way of getting off fags but as a thing in its own right, I see loads of 12-20 year olds vaping, I'm assuming cos it's the cool new kid on the block.

 

[machin05]

Vaping concerns me more than smoking (I don't like either). As a crutch to get off tobacco I see the point of it, as you say a lot of young people are vaping, not as a way of getting off fags but as a thing in its own right, I see loads of 12-20 year olds vaping, I'm assuming cos it's the cool new kid on the block.

It shouldn't. Smoking is so much worse than vaping; it's not anywhere near as harmful to health and we shouldn't be lumping them together as one problem to be dealt with with the same legislation and laws etc.

We are right to stamp out smoking, but vaping needs to be treated as a different and separate issue.

 

[sycophantia]

It shouldn't. Smoking is so much worse than vaping; it's not anywhere near as harmful to health and we shouldn't be lumping them together as one problem to be dealt with with the same legislation and laws etc.

We are right to stamp out smoking, but vaping needs to be treated as a different and separate issue.

Yeah you're right they should be treated differently but everyone in the world knows how harmful smoking is, while it feels atm that a lot of people, especially youngsters think vaping is relatively safe when no-one really knows the long term risks. As said earlier, vaping is clearly being aimed squarely at the younger market, needs stamping on.