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Keir Starmer at it again..

But the whole basis of this conversation today is that the Greens would just put us back in the EU without a referendum.

But is that actually what they are saying!?

As far as we know no, the debate hypothetical on how democratic it is.
I just think something as huge as that needs its separate campaign detailing it and a referendum not just being part of a multi policy mandate it’s just too big a decision.
 
Erm agreed I’m not a reform voter BTW as your the second person to bring up reform to me.
Just again it adds weight to the fact that parties on the extremism left or right will make some very radical and poor promises to look like they offer an alternative.

Apologies, never doubted you as a Reform voter, I was just replying to your point saying that it's a big thing deserving of it's own vote with my observation that being pulled out of ECHR by Reform won't be put to the public by Reform yet is as big and will change our Civil, Political and Social rights profoundly.
 
Given that the leave vote was secured on the back of an illegally funded campaign based on lies, with foreign state interference, I'd have no qualms rejoining without another vote.
As an individual, I'm fine with it.

But the United Kingdom doesn't run for the sole benefit of Dan Lavelle. As much as that might be quite a good idea.
 
Given that the leave vote was secured on the back of an illegally funded campaign based on lies, with foreign state interference, I'd have no qualms rejoining without another vote.

Two wrongs don’t make a right, how about running the campaign again in that case? Let’s just think about the uproar and division it would cause just reversing it without a vote?
At least putting it to a vote gives it far more legitimacy.
 
Apologies, never doubted you as a Reform voter, I was just replying to your point saying that it's a big thing deserving of it's own vote with my observation that being pulled out of ECHR by Reform won't be put to the public by Reform yet is as big and will change our Civil, Political and Social rights profoundly.

Workers rights also I think people don’t realise how well protected they’re by the basic rights they have ie minimum annual leave, pay, work time directive, disability laws, discrimination etc some employers would have no problems pushing their staff towards borderline slavery if they could.
 
A fair summary I think.

Right, so it's 2017.

Jeremy Corbyn, a man the British press had spent two years portraying as a one-man bearded apocalypse with an allotment, goes out and gets 40% of the vote, the biggest increase in Labour's vote share since 1945. Strong and stable Theresa May (who had called the election specifically to crush him) loses her majority and has to go and find some Northern Irish lads to prop her up, which cost £1 billion and the last remaining shred of her dignity.

Now, you or I watching this might think: *hm. Perhaps Corbyn’s policies have some popular appeal.* Morgan McSweeney watched this and thought: *this is a five-alarm emergency and I need to join a thinktank about unity.*

The thinktank was called Labour Together. Its public purpose (stated, printed, discussed at many a very sincere roundtable) was bringing the warring factions of the Labour Party into productive dialogue. Healing the wounds. Building bridges. All of that. Very moving stuff, I'm sure the biscuits were excellent.

McSweeney called his *actual* plan (the secret one, involving undeclared donor money and the systematic destruction of the Labour left) ..

... Operation Red Shield.

Yes, really. The shield. In the name. He called the deception after the deception. Nice.

I've spent some time thinking about this and I can only conclude that either he has a very specific sense of humour, or he'd had a bang on the head, or (and I think this is most likely) he was so confident nobody would ever find out that he just couldn't be bothered to be subtle about it, which is a level of arrogance that deserves, at minimum, a small plaque.

So. Undeclared donations (illegal, that bit, worth mentioning) from millionaire pro-Israel donors with connections to New Labour. Extensive secret polling of Labour members. All of it used to identify and cultivate a leadership candidate who could win the membership's trust, because McSweeney understood, correctly, that you need to speak their language to get through the door.

He chose Keir Starmer.

Starmer duly campaigned as a left-wing eco-socialist, defender of immigrants, challenger of corporate power, faithful inheritor of the Corbyn tradition. Ten pledges. Very specific. Written down and everything.

Within weeks of taking power he cut pensioners' heating allowances.

Now at this point a reasonable person might say, surely they must have had some kind of moderating influence? Some elder statesman in the background providing wisdom and ballast?

Yes. They had Peter Mandelson.

Mandelson, whose friendship with Jeffrey Epstein (who called him "Petey" .. please fetch me a sick bag) was not - and I want to be precise here - a closely guarded secret at the time of his appointment as US Ambassador. It was not, to borrow from Douglas Adams, buried in a filing cabinet in a basement in a disused toilet with a sign on the door saying "beware of the leopard". It was available for reading by people with access to *the internet*.

They appointed him anyway.

The people deemed too dangerous to govern, too radical, too risky, too friendly with the wrong sorts, were replaced by people who broke electoral law, secretly inflamed the antisemitism crisis to destroy their own leader, won power on promises they'd quietly binned before the ink was dry, and then, surveying the landscape of available talent, pointed at the man with the documented Epstein problem and said: *him. He's our safe pair of hands.*

Meanwhile Corbyn, the threat to civilisation, grows vegetables and makes jam.

The moral is right there, wearing a hat, waving at you from across the street. You can see it from your house.

*Next time: The Landslide That Wasn't. Or "how Keir Starmer won an historic national victory while losing half his own postcode."
 
Im sure Your Party will be a terrific success now that JC hasnt got those awful people undermining him.
 
Jeremy Corbyn believes in homeopathy and is a lifelong Brexiter. What makes you think anything about Covid or Brexit would have been better with him in charge?
 
Corbyn's reaction to Covid was far more assertive than Boris's was (doesn't take much)

As proven by the enquiry, 20k more deaths occurred because of Boris arsing about at the start and not taking it seriously whilst Italy and Spain were burning.
 
And you think Jeremy 'Man Of Action' Corbyn would have moved quicker?

The man needs a committee meeting to decide if he wants tea or coffee.
 
Yes, I do think he would have moved quicker.
In January/February 2020 he was already publicly calling for stronger border controls and emergency planning, while Boris was missing early COBRA meetings and talking about “taking it on the chin.”

You don’t have to like him to acknowledge the government’s early response was slow the Covid Inquiry has made that pretty clear.

Also, you can say what you want about Corbyn, but he’s not someone who just doesn’t turn up.
 
Maybe just ban the poster who finds it necessary to troll every post about Corbyn? Oh, that's right you cant ban him. Despite the fact that he's a disgusting troll and apologist for Israel.
 
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