Keir Starmer at it again..

[Deutsch Wolf]

I mean that's literally the Geneva Convention. It's quite a thing you're planning to rip up because Joan from Barnsley doesn't like brown people staying in the Holiday Inn.

 

[Tony Towner]

It also fails to address the concerns of the much larger band of people who are pretty pissed off that someone can get on a boat in a perfectly safe country to travel to another perfectly safe country to cherry pick which perfectly safe country they choose to live in, and all done at the tax-payers expense whilst often having absolutely no idea who it even is you’re welcoming in the first place. You don’t need to be ‘all Farage’ to see that’s a problem, just pretty damn blinkered if you can’t see it is.

The arguments around the relatively low percentages involved are largely irrelevant, it’s something everyone I know bar the odd dreamer wants stopping and if Keir’s solution is to just wave everybody through more efficiently then we’re just kicking the can down the road.

That's been debunked so many times it's pointless doing it again

 

[EpsomWolf]

That's been debunked so many times it's pointless doing it again

To a point I agree, but if the debunking isn’t changing attitudes by now I guess it never will. I guess we’re probably at that point and it’s echo chambers from here on in.

Difficult to see healthy outcomes from that situation unfortunately.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Well the problem is, now bear with me here, the safe country they are coming from is France, a member of the European Union. And the safe country they are arriving in is the United Kingdom, no longer a member of the European Union.

Now, were the United Kingdom still a member of the European Union, then under the legislation of that union, the refugees arriving could be returned to France or whichever country was their first point of entry into the European Union.

But Brexit binned that. So it's actually Farage and co who are to blame.

 

[sycophantia]

Well the problem is, now bear with me here, the safe country they are coming from is France, a member of the European Union. And the safe country they are arriving in is the United Kingdom, no longer a member of the European Union.

Now, were the United Kingdom still a member of the European Union, then under the legislation of that union, the refugees arriving could be returned to France or whichever country was their first point of entry into the European Union.

But Brexit binned that. So it's actually Farage and co who are to blame.

This is of course all true but it's done now, we need a proper plan, preferably a worldwide strategy to sort out migration or at least a plan by the 'West'....never gunna happen unfortunately.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Do we? Do we really need that?

Personally I would infinitely prefer global freedom of movement and work rights.

 

[Loki]

People were crossing the channel before Brexit and nothing was being done with regards returning them to France. I think Brexit got over the line thanks to Boris/Farages "we`ll take back our borders".

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

It actually was as there was a legal return framework so France did a lot more to stop them in the first place.

 

[EpsomWolf]

But Brexit binned that. So it's actually Farage and co who are to blame.

I think we’re way beyond any value in debating who’s to blame and probably getting close to the point where fundamentally it’s about whether you believe in open borders or not, with the racist nutcases at the far edges of one side and the dreaming utopians on the far edges of the other.

Brexit imv showed as a society we’re more ‘control’ than ‘open’. The Left’s focus on the likes of Farage and SM and the effectiveness with which they manipulated people and subsequent desire to shut those avenues down, gives way too much credence to said manipulation in a self-congratulatory affirmation kind of way, and underestimates the moderates who they’re driving further the other way.

Looks to me like we’re moving into the next stage now where debate is more or less over, certainly in terms of changing opinions, and we’re going to have to live with the consequences of ever increasing polarisation. Unfortunately I can’t see how that can end well for anyone.

 

[visage]

It also fails to address the concerns of the much larger band of people who are pretty pissed off that someone can get on a boat in a perfectly safe country to travel to another perfectly safe country to cherry pick which perfectly safe country they choose to live in, and all done at the tax-payers expense whilst often having absolutely no idea who it even is you’re welcoming in the first place. You don’t need to be ‘all Farage’ to see that’s a problem, just pretty damn blinkered if you can’t see it is.

The arguments around the relatively low percentages involved are largely irrelevant, it’s something everyone I know bar the odd dreamer wants stopping and if Keir’s solution is to just wave everybody through more efficiently then we’re just kicking the can down the road.

Hes not waiving everybody through though. There are several countries that have a 98%+ approval rate for asylum, so giving them a blanket approval frees up money and capacity to process the rest of the (more contentious) backlog.

Therefore we move towards a system where we can process arrivals quickly, have no backlog, and dont accrue vast costs having to house people in hotels and B&Bs.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I think we’re way beyond any value in debating who’s to blame and probably getting close to the point where fundamentally it’s about whether you believe in open borders or not, with the racist nutcases at the far edges of one side and the dreaming utopians on the far edges of the other.

Brexit imv showed as a society we’re more ‘control’ than ‘open’. The Left’s focus on the likes of Farage and SM and the effectiveness with which they manipulated people and subsequent desire to shut those avenues down, gives way too much credence to said manipulation in a self-congratulatory affirmation kind of way, and underestimates the moderates who they’re driving further the other way.

Looks to me like we’re moving into the next stage now where debate is more or less over, certainly in terms of changing opinions, and we’re going to have to live with the consequences of ever increasing polarisation. Unfortunately I can’t see how that can end well for anyone.

"The left's" focus?

Cameron, May? That left?

 

[EpsomWolf]

Hes not waiving everybody through though. There are several countries that have a 98%+ approval rate for asylum, so giving them a blanket approval frees up money and capacity to process the rest of the (more contentious) backlog.

Therefore we move towards a system where we can process arrivals quickly, have no backlog, and dont accrue vast costs having to house people in hotels and B&Bs.

Hmmm, I think approving 98% more efficiently or any sort of blanket approval is probably going to perceived in the less nuanced way of ‘waiving everybody through’.

I’ve always felt Starmer has got to be particularly careful on that one. As touched on previously I think as a country we’re a bit more ‘control’ than ‘open borders’, and generally Conservative voters wanted something done, in effect, taking back ‘some sort of’ control. It became evident the Conservatives were incapable of achieving that leaving the nut jobs to vote Reform and anyone with any sense LibDems or Labour. I’m honestly at a loss to understand who actually still voted Conservative but that’s another matter.

As I see it Starmer therefore has an awful lot of moderates and centre right voters who will be watching how he handles this. I think his best outcome would be to see the Conservatives lurch even further right killing off the moderates altogether, but if they were to get their act together and Starmer started inching left those votes wouldn’t necessarily stay with him very long.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I mean our economy as it is currently set up literally requires a constant flow of immigration.

I have little care for what racist idiots think.

 

[EpsomWolf]

I don’t think anyone’s disputing that, it’s about the regulation and the way that’s delivered or if you think regulation is even necessary.

Takes us back to those fundamentals being where we’re at now, the rest is a pretty worn record.

 

[Keef]

Still feels like he’s only just getting started, and not done a huge amount, but he’s now served 2 days more than liz Truss did.
It’s nice to be away from the banter age of politics.

 

[lemonjelly]

all without crashing the economy!

 

[Dire Wolf]

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

What is Elon Musk's end game? Why is he doing stuff like this?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1827668394843251152

 

[BillyDee]

He's just doing what his Russian paymasters tell him to.

 

[Tony Towner]

Yep. Context here. Same reason he's now pro Trump

https://twitter.com/x/status/1827282706574537013