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Yackity Yack, Let's Talk Zack

Lupo said:
I don't think any of us think what happened to Menezes was acceptable and I accept what you're saying about 'what if they have the wrong man' but in this case, the perpetrator was literally at the scene, carrying a knife dripping with his victims blood and the Police used the force they felt was necessary to disarm him
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I think its really interesting that you remember the initial story the police gave, rather than the facts that came out of the investigation.

I'm not blaming you for that, i understand it, as the initial story was pushed far more strongly by the media.

But perhaps that's why we are where we are when it comes to scandals like Hillsborough, Grenfell, Menezes etc where no one ever actually suffers consequences.
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
I think its really interesting that you remember the initial story the police gave, rather than the facts that came out of the investigation.

I'm not blaming you for that, i understand it, as the initial story was pushed far more strongly by the media.

But perhaps that's why we are where we are when it comes to scandals like Hillsborough, Grenfell, Menezes etc where no one ever actually suffers consequences.
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Mate, I think its interesting I remember it full stop :LOL:
 
Sniffer said:
Polanski has apologised for sharing the post criticising the officers.
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Too late, the damage is done and the mask is slipping.

Everyone getting over-excited about the rise of the Greens is going to have to get used to this sort of thing. They’re having their ‘Reform’ peak, there’s plenty of time for more of this sort of stuff before the next election.

It’s hardly started yet.
 
One of the biggest criticisms of Starmer is that he can’t “read the room” which is a very important trait in a leader. Seems like ZP can’t either, there was absolutely no need for him to comment and I bet he’s regretting it now. If he’s serious about being part of a future Government he needs to take a deep breath and consider whether what he wants to say is politically wise. By all means have a debate when the dust has settled but wait until the victims are out of hospital because there’s nothing to gain and a lot to lose.
 
I'm just imaging the conversation if the two officers had tried a more "gentle" approach to the maniac... tried to wrestle the knife from his grip... but he stabs the one in the neck, gets up, stabs the other officer incapacitating the both of them... carries on his rampage and stabs and murders three more people before armed response arrive and shoot him dead after he moves towards them...

I can hear the same voices now saying what were those two jokers in uniform doing, letting themselves be overpowered... and now three more people are dead... thank fuck the real police arrived to take him out before he could do any more damage...
 
I used to work for the London ambulance service and we'd often have statements from crews concerning the conduct of the MET. They used to get referred to the IPCC where they went absolutely nowhere as it was almost entirely staffed by x police.
 
sycophantia said:
Nurses etc trying to save lives is a completely different thing to police subduing a violent, armed, dangerous criminal to try and stop him endangering others.
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Standards should be even higher then for people 'allowed' to carry out acts of violence on behalf of the state?
 
Wilf Wolf said:
One of the biggest criticisms of Starmer is that he can’t “read the room” which is a very important trait in a leader. Seems like ZP can’t either, there was absolutely no need for him to comment and I bet he’s regretting it now. If he’s serious about being part of a future Government he needs to take a deep breath and consider whether what he wants to say is politically wise. By all means have a debate when the dust has settled but wait until the victims are out of hospital because there’s nothing to gain and a lot to lose.
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Hmm, not sure. He reads the room perfectly well in tapping into the anger and resentment that exists towards Capitalists/greed/corporations/tax avoiders etc etc etc and is trying to do a ‘Starmer’ in presenting as credible and having the loons under control.

Further reading of the room in the sense of knowing when to shut up and masking any damage would only be precisely that, a ‘mask’, and he’s not very good at it. Trouble is, everyone knows what lurks behind the exciting new alternative and it’s beginning to show.
 
basher said:
I'm just imaging the conversation if the two officers had tried a more "gentle" approach to the maniac... tried to wrestle the knife from his grip... but he stabs the one in the neck, gets up, stabs the other officer incapacitating the both of them... carries on his rampage and stabs and murders three more people before armed response arrive and shoot him dead after he moves towards them...

I can hear the same voices now saying what were those two jokers in uniform doing, letting themselves be overpowered... and now three more people are dead... thank fuck the real police arrived to take him out before he could do any more damage...
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I think there are quite a few options when you've got a tazed, outnumbered man on the floor that are more secure than "let him stab you" and less violent than "boot him in the head" tbf
 
Run them by me?

It's all well and good saying these things but you've got people responding in real time to a situation that they have no idea what they're going into... so first and foremost disarm the individual and make sure they can't do any more harm.
 
I reckon a few plays of Del's track through a boombox and he'd have been putty in police hands and begging to be put away ;)
 
basher said:
Run them by me?

It's all well and good saying these things but you've got people responding in real time to a situation that they have no idea what they're going into... so first and foremost disarm the individual and make sure they can't do any more harm.
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What's the training for if all they do is kick a bloke in the head? We could hire bouncers instead.
 
Seems the guy had also attempted to murder his friend of 20 years at his Southwark flat earlier in the day.
 
He tried talking to him to calm him down... but hey ho... it's the way these things go..
 
EpsomWolf said:
Hmm, not sure. He reads the room perfectly well in tapping into the anger and resentment that exists towards Capitalists/greed/corporations/tax avoiders etc etc etc and is trying to do a ‘Starmer’ in presenting as credible and having the loons under control.

Further reading of the room in the sense of knowing when to shut up and masking any damage would only be precisely that, a ‘mask’, and he’s not very good at it. Trouble is, everyone knows what lurks behind the exciting new alternative and it’s beginning to show.
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I actually found his assumption that the man was mentally ill as misplaced as the suggestion that the police had used excessive force.

The Greens are in a strange position in that a lot of voters like a lot of what they stand for but I suspect many of those voters have serious reservations about one or more of their policies, particularly defence. I just think that if he wants to get elected a little more discretion would help. The fact he’s apologised suggests he’s aware of that now. Sharing such a post will undoubtedly do more harm than good as it’s generally a lot easier to lose support than gain new support.
 
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