Keir Starmer at it again..

[Dire Wolf]

Have we EVER had a non-profit food producer in history? Profit is not always bad..

I suppose Soviet Russia was technically non-profit once the Kulaks got theirs.

On the bolder text, I agree. Profit in the hands of small businesses who invest that back into the local economy through other small businesses, who go on to do the same thing is fantastic. Those small businesses who use that profit to provide a decent way of life for their family is wonderful. Small businesses should be the lifeblood of the economy and the heart of communities.

But that isn't what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the vast corporations who suck wealth out of the economy and hoard it, those businesses that are actively causing destruction to the planet, and creating the vast inequalities in life that contribute to rising obesity simply because they can make a fortune out of it. That's an economic system that needs to end.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

On the bolder text, I agree. Profit in the hands of small businesses who invest that back into the local economy through other small businesses, who go on to do the same thing is fantastic. Those small businesses who use that profit to provide a decent way of life for their family is wonderful. Small businesses should be the lifeblood of the economy and the heart of communities.

But that isn't what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the vast corporations who suck wealth out of the economy and hoard it, those businesses that are actively causing destruction to the planet, and creating the vast inequalities in life that contribute to rising obesity simply because they can make a fortune out of it. That's an economic system that needs to end.

So when the small business has flourished and the owner wants to sell up and retire who does he sell to? The reality is in many cases only larger businesses can afford to buy smaller businesses so guess what, you end up back where we are.

 

[Tom Hark]

This is a really hot topic at the moment. And one that is way more complex than first expected.

The old agade of eat healthier and exercise more is just not realistic or effective. Access to healthy food, fresh food etc if you are living in poverty is extremely difficult. Time pressures force people into eating too much fast food and ultra processed/easy options. Basic culinary skills are being lost etc. The data is there. Eating healthy is becoming more of an unobtainable option for ever increasing numbers of people.
Plus, meaningful exercise is easier said than done. Walking helps, but it's not enough to make a difference for most. Time to dedicate to running is hard to come by. Cost of equipment, gym memberships can't be ignored. And finally, some people can eat well, exercise a decent amount but still struggle to shift weight. I'm no expert, but metabolism and physiology just count against some.

Whilst drugs might not be the best answer, something needs to be done. The NHS is on its knees and if we can reduce the obesity related treatments in ways other than 'eat better and exercise more' slogans, then that has to be explored in a meaningful way.

I really don't get this argument. Fresh fruit and veg are among the cheapest things you can buy. And if time to prep is a problem, Aldi have loads of frozen veg at between £1 and £1.50 per kilo. Lots of cheap properly 'fast' food recipes on line, too.

I think the normalisation of obesity in the West (or UK and US, certainly) over the past few decades has a lot to answer for. Being fat used to be something to be ashamed of, or at least avoided; now it's almost promoted as a badge of pride in some quarters (some of the sights on stage at Glastonbury this year - Jesus! You'd never have seen Aretha Franklin in a leotard.) It's perhaps a downside of the culture of entitlement that the country has embraced. Poverty isn't a reliable indicator for weight. You don't see many obese people (who aren't tourists) on the streets of Japan, and their poverty rate is 32% higher than ours, relatively speaking (2021 figures). (Mind you, I think a lot more of them smoke; what a self-destructive species we are.)

 

[Tony Towner]

now it's almost promoted as a badge of pride in some quarters (some of the sights on stage at Glastonbury this year - Jesus! You'd never have seen Aretha Franklin in a leotard.)

This is deeply unpleasant. There's practically an epidemic when it comes to teenage girls and young women with their mental health over body issues. This kind of gammony comment is part of the reason why.

 

[Tom Hark]

This is deeply unpleasant. There's practically an epidemic when it comes to teenage girls and young women with their mental health over body issues. This kind of gammony comment is part of the reason why.

Perhaps that attitude is part of the reason for the epidemic.

 

[leedswolf]

On the bolder text, I agree. Profit in the hands of small businesses who invest that back into the local economy through other small businesses, who go on to do the same thing is fantastic. Those small businesses who use that profit to provide a decent way of life for their family is wonderful. Small businesses should be the lifeblood of the economy and the heart of communities.

But that isn't what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the vast corporations who suck wealth out of the economy and hoard it, those businesses that are actively causing destruction to the planet, and creating the vast inequalities in life that contribute to rising obesity simply because they can make a fortune out of it. That's an economic system that needs to end.

Wasn't the CWS set up in the mid 19 Century as the model to deliver this?

 

[Johnny75]

I really don't get this argument. Fresh fruit and veg are among the cheapest things you can buy. And if time to prep is a problem, Aldi have loads of frozen veg at between £1 and £1.50 per kilo. Lots of cheap properly 'fast' food recipes on line, too.

I think the normalisation of obesity in the West (or UK and US, certainly) over the past few decades has a lot to answer for. Being fat used to be something to be ashamed of, or at least avoided; now it's almost promoted as a badge of pride in some quarters (some of the sights on stage at Glastonbury this year - Jesus! You'd never have seen Aretha Franklin in a leotard.) It's perhaps a downside of the culture of entitlement that the country has embraced. Poverty isn't a reliable indicator for weight. You don't see many obese people (who aren't tourists) on the streets of Japan, and their poverty rate is 32% higher than ours, relatively speaking (2021 figures). (Mind you, I think a lot more of them smoke; what a self-destructive species we are.)

Hi Lee, do you have any 30p recipes in your new book, How to be more offensive in the woke era?

 

[Del Woppio]

Jesus fuck that's a take. A terrible, terrible take. Complete fucking bollocks like, but good on you for being so wrong so loudly.

 

[AndyWolves]

Ultra processed foods full of sugar eaten are a far bigger problem than the occasional Big Mac and fries. I don’t like the fact a company that has been lobbying Government is getting the contract but weight loss drugs will make a huge difference to many people. If exercise and diet alone was an easy solution over a quarter of the adult population wouldn’t be obese. Targeting people who’s weight is preventing them getting employment seems a win-win, less burden on the taxpayer and longer term less burden on the NHS.

Ultra processed foods are a huge problem. In it them out (as best I could) and lost a ton of weight. There needs to be more information about damaging sugar actually is and how import the gut biome is.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Recent research suggests that exercise has very limited, if any, effect on weight loss.

In my own study of one, I’ve recently lost about 2.5 stone and I’m doing less exercise now than I was when I was 2.5 stone heavier. Simply reduced processed food intake massively. I used to have 2 or 3 Huels throughout the day and then a decent dinner, and probably too many takeaways. I used to do that because it was convenient and I’m alledgedly getting a complete nutritional profile with the Huel. I’ve had to make the effort to start making meals, but just stopping the processed foods makes a massive difference. I’ll still eat treats and drink alcohol but don’t seem to be gaining back the weight. It’s also a lot cheaper too because you can buy a lot of food for the £25 you’d spend on a takeaway curry for two

So TLDR. It’s not getting people to exercise, it’s cutting the processed foods and not eating to excess because it’s easy to do that with processed foods. Tbh an injection is probably the easiest/only way to do that for some.

 

[machin05]

I really don't get this argument. Fresh fruit and veg are among the cheapest things you can buy. And if time to prep is a problem, Aldi have loads of frozen veg at between £1 and £1.50 per kilo. Lots of cheap properly 'fast' food recipes on line, too.

I think the normalisation of obesity in the West (or UK and US, certainly) over the past few decades has a lot to answer for. Being fat used to be something to be ashamed of, or at least avoided; now it's almost promoted as a badge of pride in some quarters (some of the sights on stage at Glastonbury this year - Jesus! You'd never have seen Aretha Franklin in a leotard.) It's perhaps a downside of the culture of entitlement that the country has embraced. Poverty isn't a reliable indicator for weight. You don't see many obese people (who aren't tourists) on the streets of Japan, and their poverty rate is 32% higher than ours, relatively speaking (2021 figures). (Mind you, I think a lot more of them smoke; what a self-destructive species we are.)

Hugh F-W did a great programme about the availability of fresh food in the local shops of council estates and poorer areas of towns and cities. Ultimately, unless you can drive to a supermarket then cheap junk is just so much more accessible.

Then you have the lack of understanding around ingredients and cooking from fresh.

And that's all before you look at the bad dietary decisions being made as a result of the scarcity mindset that plagues more and more of the poorer families.

I won't bother addressing your absolute bin fire of a second paragraph as others have done so more eloquently than I can muster at this point.

 

[Tredman]

Recent research suggests that exercise has very limited, if any, effect on weight loss.

In my own study of one, I’ve recently lost about 2.5 stone and I’m doing less exercise now than I was when I was 2.5 stone heavier. Simply reduced processed food intake massively. I used to have 2 or 3 Huels throughout the day and then a decent dinner, and probably too many takeaways. I used to do that because it was convenient and I’m alledgedly getting a complete nutritional profile with the Huel. I’ve had to make the effort to start making meals, but just stopping the processed foods makes a massive difference. I’ll still eat treats and drink alcohol but don’t seem to be gaining back the weight. It’s also a lot cheaper too because you can buy a lot of food for the £25 you’d spend on a takeaway curry for two

So TLDR. It’s not getting people to exercise, it’s cutting the processed foods and not eating to excess because it’s easy to do that with processed foods. Tbh an injection is probably the easiest/only way to do that for some.

I lost 10 stone eating a ‘bit’ less and exercising a ‘lot’ more. Small sample size but it worked.

Edit - no diet content changes at all.

 

[Tredman]

Hugh F-W did a great programme about the availability of fresh food in the local shops of council estates and poorer areas of towns and cities. Ultimately, unless you can drive to a supermarket then cheap junk is just so much more accessible.

Then you have the lack of understanding around ingredients and cooking from fresh.

And that's all before you look at the bad dietary decisions being made as a result of the scarcity mindset that plagues more and more of the poorer families.

I won't bother addressing your absolute bin fire of a second paragraph as others have done so more eloquently than I can muster at this point.

It is a bit chicken and egg for small shops. We have a great one near us but if they got a load of fresh fruit and veg in due to their relative low footfall it’d just rot.

 

[The Bear]

Eating processed food and stuff that is high in saturated fat like fast food and snacks is fine in moderation. Just like eating butter is fine as long as you're not troughing 5 slices of toast per day.

It's when it becomes a lazy habit and eat all that stuff constantly as your main 80-90% of your diet that the problems start. Not only does the weight go on really easy but you start to feel like crap to boot.

I've started filling my plate with veg more on each meal and eating that first while I'm still hungry. Also trying to eat more porridge oats and eggs in the first half of the day instead of crumpets and bread. Also trying to up my fruit intake too.

I'm not a huge fish eater but try and keep plenty of tinned salmon and tuna as snack foods as well.

I still eat too many bags of crisps so need to stop buying them and go cold turkey. Or I'll just cane through them like nobodies business.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

I lost 10 stone eating a ‘bit’ less and exercising a ‘lot’ more. Small sample size but it worked.

Edit - no diet content changes at all.

Based on the experience of my family, I would say pretty much eating the same but exercising a lot more can make a massive difference.

 

[The Bear]

I know where Tom Hark is coming from above.

The whole "body positivity" thing and celebrating plus sized people as though it should be normalised and not something to be ashamed of any more is aimed at mental health, but all it does is give people an excuse to think it's fine to get that big.

The idea that "shaming people is bad" has gone too far the other way. Bill Burr once said in one of his routines, why is it not OK to shame people any more? So, people can just walk around doing whatever the fuck they want and we're all supposed to say nothing or congratulate them for it?

 

[Johnny75]

Based on the experience of my family, I would say pretty much eating the same but exercising a lot more can make a massive difference.

It's almost like everybody is different

Different triggers, metabolic rates, reactions to food, exercise types, medical conditions, environmental conditions, type of work and plain old genetics.

For me, it's keeping off the sugar and heavy weights that burn through the fat quickest but for others it's going to be long runs and giving up bacon.

 

[Johnny75]

I know where Tom Hark is coming from above.

The whole "body positivity" thing and celebrating plus sized people as though it should be normalised and not something to be ashamed of any more is aimed at mental health, but all it does is give people an excuse to think it's fine to get that big.

The idea that "shaming people is bad" has gone too far the other way. Bill Burr once said in one of his routines, why is it not OK to shame people any more? So, people can just walk around doing whatever the fuck they want and we're all supposed to say nothing or congratulate them for it?

What the actual fuck are you talking about?

 

[Del Woppio]

I think it's basically "that Lizzo's fat, she shouldn't be wearing a leotard"

 

[AndyWolves]

There are health risks with being obese, it's damaging if people think there aren't.