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Just how good were/was/is/are (Wolves Edition)

His death was clearly horrendous, especially with him having a young family. Football doesn't come into that kind of thing.

However, he was vastly, vastly overrated by our fans, especially in retrospect. He was pretty good on loan but played mostly at RB, so you didn't get the full picture there. That was a hell of a lot of money at the time for someone who'd never played above the third tier and we didn't have much evidence of how good he'd turn out in his proper position. First half of 95/96 he was indeed excellent (in a terrible team), I don't envy him having to play alongside Eric Young. We'll ignore the Stoke game here. Absolutely imperious at Spurs in his final pre-crash game and I think MOTD bigged him up afterwards.

Definitely nothing like the same after for us. Was horrific in the first half of 96/97, so many errors leading directly to goals, often through being stupidly casual. If we'd had any other fit centre halves at the time then he'd probably have been dropped. Goal against Albion and then injured again shortly afterwards. Came back in December 97 and was little more than average after that until his contract ran out. Curle was the better performer by a significant distance. Doesn't cover himself in glory for Arsenal's goal in the semi final either though if Hans Segers could kick, it would never have happened.

A year previously, Steve Froggatt signed a new deal so we could get a fee for him (and a fair one as it turned out). Despite being injured for nearly half his time with us, Richards chose to walk out. It left a sour taste in the mouth. Now you can say it's his right to do that, who am I to begrudge someone in the free market. I think sometimes players owe a club to an extent though. Some players act honourably, others don't.

He was pretty good for Southampton, pretty rubbish for Spurs. Doubt he would ever have gone on to be as good as some of our fans seem to think, injuries or not. Telling that he never got an England cap. Sure, there was competition at centre half at the time but it wasn't that hard to get a game at some point. He never came close under either Keegan or Sven as I remember, wasn't even on the edge of thinking.

There was a definite novelty in seeing a centre half who could actually play football. I'm not sure he was all that though. When we do the Wolves best XIs, he never gets anywhere near my thinking, don't think I even had him in my top six in the first big one we did and this was before we signed Boly. Doesn't hold a candle to Lescott and I preferred Pollet and Curle to Richards.

He cost Spurs 8.1million and played in the top half of the Prem for them and 140 Prem games overall, so i think the majority of Wolves fans thinking he was pretty good is fair?
 
I'm not sure I'm taking what Glenn Hoddle chose to spend on a player as a barometer of quality :)

He wasn't very good for Spurs at all and they weren't a good team then. They were "top half" in as much as Palace might finish in the top half this season.

Again, it's not that he was rubbish. Just that he wasn't England's next great centre half, cut down in his prime.
 
As an aside Keith Curle played 250+ top flight games...I'll have him every time in a straight choice.
 
I loved Pollet, but Richards was a better player, you only have to compare their careers.
 
As an aside Keith Curle played 250+ top flight games...I'll have him every time in a straight choice.

Richards pre car crash v Curle? I'd go for Richards personally.

He was superb before that car crash, and whilst he didn't reach those heights again he still did have a good career until illness set in.
 
Football doesn't just work on ability though, otherwise Jamie O'Hara wouldn't have been dicking around in the 6th and 7th tiers for the last couple of years. Especially when you're weighing up whether you like a guy or not.

Is there anything to separate Dean Richards and Mark Davies in terms of how they behaved regarding their contract situation? And we did actually get a fee for the spotty oik.
 
Richards pre car crash v Curle? I'd go for Richards personally.

He was superb before that car crash, and whilst he didn't reach those heights again he still did have a good career until illness set in.

You're looking at what though, 30-odd games? It's hardly a big sample size.

Far more of his Wolves career was either him being unavailable or underwhelming rather than outstanding.
 
Is that the argument? If it is you are right. (him leaving the way he did)

I was disagreeing that Wolves fans over rated him? Pre car crash to me at least he looked like he was going to play at the very top level and play for England, even despite that injury where he definitely wasn't as good, he still had a good top flight career. 140 games in the Prem and he finished 15th, 10th, 9th, and 10th.
 
Just how good was he..........excellent up to his injury and I think I posted in the best of thread that up to his injury he was as good as anything until Boly. Considering the dross we had watched at centre half prior to his arrival he was streets ahead of the rest.

What happened afterwards is well known and like most fans I wasn't exactly happy at him leaving the club on a Bosman.
 
Is that the argument? If it is you are right. (him leaving the way he did)

I was disagreeing that Wolves fans over rated him? Pre car crash to me at least he looked like he was going to play at the very top level and play for England, even despite that injury where he definitely wasn't as good, he still had a good top flight career. 140 games in the Prem and he finished 15th, 10th, 9th, and 10th.

Can you really use that metric?

Mark Venus finished 5th with Ipswich. I'd also probably take him over Richards in a Wolves context as he performed over a long period, not half a season at a time when we nearly got relegated to the third tier.
 
I just don't think it's fair to say Wolves fans over rated him - and when you look at his career after Wolves he was clearly a good Prem player, there weren't many players from that era that left Wolves and bettered themselves.

Where as it is fair to say they over rated Freddy Eastwood, look at his career after he left Wolves...
 
Has anyone else noted that Deutsch keeps bringing Mark Venus into conversations, a little man crush methinks :)
 
Can you really use that metric?

Mark Venus finished 5th with Ipswich. I'd also probably take him over Richards in a Wolves context as he performed over a long period, not half a season at a time when we nearly got relegated to the third tier.

I’m partly with you that he was perhaps overrated, or mythologised might be a better way of describing it. I think I watched every one his loan games and he was the very definition of a massively promising player. He proved it before the crash too. Just wasn’t the same after and I think that is a lot of the reason why he is held in high regard - it’s a massive ‘what if’.

Way better than Veno though.
 
Has anyone else noted that Deutsch keeps bringing Mark Venus into conversations, a little man crush methinks :)

He's dead to me after spending years working with that knob Mowbray.

He was good though!
 
Don't worry I had a massive Ludo crush and was indignant that Ivar Ingimarrsen never got a fair shout :)
 
I’m partly with you that he was perhaps overrated, or mythologised might be a better way of describing it. I think I watched every one his loan games and he was the very definition of a massively promising player. He proved it before the crash too. Just wasn’t the same after and I think that is a lot of the reason why he is held in high regard - it’s a massive ‘what if’.

Way better than Veno though.

Mythologised is a very good way of putting it. I might steal that and appropriate it as my own opinion ;)

I found that at the time a lot of his awful play (and there was a lot of it) got glossed over much more readily than other players, quite frustrating.

Given he was free at the time - you'd think someone better than Southampton would have been in for him if he'd been that good for us? They were stock bottom six dwellers then, rarely ever got any higher than that.
 
Opinions about a players ability or worth to Wolves are definitely, in my case anyway, clouded by what you think of them as a person and the perceived amount of effort they put into their Wolves careers. Like Richards and Gray beforehand, I'm sure my judgement on their playing abilities would be slightly different if I hadn't met them.

I'm with DW on Richards - albeit clouded somewhat by his leaving, but them softened by his tragic death - in that he was never quite as good as the hype. He certainly wasn't anywhere near a 'great' for us IMO and after his car crash his injuries and seeming desire to be on the pitch meant I thought he owed us something other than to leave on a Bosman.

Going back to Akinbiyi and Kennedy, again I go with views already expressed although I was amazed we got £5m+ for Ade. I'm sure most fans I know would have been happy to have just got our money back. And yes, the Kennedy goal at Stockport was one of the cleanest strikes you'll ever see. I recall being right behind it [were we on the side?] as he struck it and it was going in from the moment it left his foot.
 
Looking at DW's a timeline can develop that he was playing for a move, had a bit of a honeymoon period, then injuries set in before he actively lost interest. I'd say that's a fair reflection of his time here. Rather than overrated I think he's remembered fondly for the Albion goal and other stuff is airbrushed.

My lasting memory of him is him scoring twice at Derby. I'd say he was miles off Lescott and Boly. Of centre halves we've had since I've followed Wolves he'd feature quite highly but more to do with the gash we've had play there.
 
Looking at DW's a timeline can develop that he was playing for a move, had a bit of a honeymoon period, then injuries set in before he actively lost interest. I'd say that's a fair reflection of his time here. Rather than overrated I think he's remembered fondly for the Albion goal and other stuff is airbrushed.

My lasting memory of him is him scoring twice at Derby. I'd say he was miles off Lescott and Boly. Of centre halves we've had since I've followed Wolves he'd feature quite highly but more to do with the gash we've had play there over the years.
 
Didn't he have Ian Wright in his pocket at one point? There were games when he was different class, but not by what we're being spoiled with these days
 
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