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Jeremy Corbyn

Bit on the shaggies said:
Well that's ok then.

We'll keep dropping bombs on Syrian and Iraqi towns until
a : the insane people of IS don't want to go to heaven any more
or
b : everybody over there is dead
or
c : everybody left living over there, even the poor innocent bastards being terrorized on a daily basis by IS as we speak, hate us so much that they'll go to even further lengths to wage war on us. (at least this way we can drop some more bombs though)

You can't beat these $#@!ers into submission (see Palestine) and waging war on them from the air is self-defeating.

The only way to win is via troops on the ground and we'd be stupid to play into IS's hands on that one.

In my mind we should just let Assad sort them out.
Click to expand...
I think I agree on this, I was just having a dig at Jezza.
 
You're right. We should leave Isis alone to kill/rape/torture whoever they want, whenever they want until they decide enoughs enough and become lovely happy vegans whose main export is no longer terror but love...
 
I should say before I log off, I'm not entirely serious, but that's the counter (very simplified) opposite of bots one. The reality is more complex, but I personally don't like the idea of not bothering to help people who are very much in need. Bombing isn't the whole solution but it is part of it. Not doing anything is just moral cowardice in my view.
 
I didn't suggest not doing anything, I said we should let Assad sort them out. At least that way we wont be seen as imperialist crusaders. We've caused enough problems over there as it is. It's time to let them sort it out for themselves.

Maybe one day they'll come to the same conclusion as Europe did, albeit after two horrendous wars, that blowing each other up en masse isn't the answer.
 
Bit on the shaggies said:
I didn't suggest not doing anything, I said we should let Assad sort them out. At least that way we wont be seen as imperialist crusaders. We've caused enough problems over there as it is. It's time to let them sort it out for themselves.

Maybe one day they'll come to the same conclusion as Europe did, albeit after two horrendous wars, that blowing each other up en masse isn't the answer.
Click to expand...

Apparently according to a couple of analyist I heard being interviewed last night it seems the Americans are slowly coming round to the idea, that Putin is right and the best thing to do is leave Assad in place, to sort it out and hopefully bring some stability to the whole area (unpalatable as it is).
 
Well as Putin seems desperate to get an ever bigger hard on by having a war with basically anyone, then let him put his troops on the ground and sort Isis.

Mind you, I seem to remember reading yesterday that that nice Mr Assad's boys barrell bombed an MSF hospital yesterday, so maybe if we leave him to it, he will complete the genocide and we can all go to bed happy.
 
Bit on the shaggies said:
I didn't suggest not doing anything, I said we should let Assad sort them out. At least that way we wont be seen as imperialist crusaders. We've caused enough problems over there as it is. It's time to let them sort it out for themselves.

Maybe one day they'll come to the same conclusion as Europe did, albeit after two horrendous wars, that blowing each other up en masse isn't the answer.
Click to expand...

Surely leaving it for Assad to deal with is just the same as doing nothing? Or are you proposing that the UK actively back Assad as Russia are now doing?

Even then, do you not think that if Assad was capable of 'sorting them out' he would've already done so by now? Syria has been in civil war for years by this point, IS was born out of the mess that Assad made so it's very unlikely he's going to be the one to clean things up.

I'm starting to feel like Turkey are as much of a problem in this conflict as pretty much anyone else, fingers in lots of pies with little concern for anything other than themselves, you'd think having a European yet Muslim nation right on the edge of this conflict would be almost the perfect go between but they're more of an obstruction as far as I can see, almost as if they're playing everyone off against each other at times.
 
Turkey buy oil from ISIS don't they and have also supplied them weapons as they help keep the folk they don't like in check (i.e kill them)
 
I've read similar about the oil, either them buying it directly or at least facilitating the sale of it to others.

Their stance with the Kurds when Kobane was on the cusp of destruction was particularly sour, not really welcoming refugees in nor would they allow any existing refugees cross back over and defend their land. They've had this thing with Russia now too, which I think is more to do with who the Russian's were targetting, people with some sort of ancestral link to Turkey, rather than them encroaching on Turkish airspace.

They seem to use their position on the edge of the Arab nations to distance themselves from becoming too Westernised and give themselves a bit of breathing space from toeing the EU line but then fall back on that EU support when someone from outside comes knocking, like Russia or other neighbours they can't be arsed with.
 
MARKakaJIM said:
I've read similar about the oil, either them buying it directly or at least facilitating the sale of it to others.

Their stance with the Kurds when Kobane was on the cusp of destruction was particularly sour, not really welcoming refugees in nor would they allow any existing refugees cross back over and defend their land. They've had this thing with Russia now too, which I think is more to do with who the Russian's were targetting, people with some sort of ancestral link to Turkey, rather than them encroaching on Turkish airspace.

They seem to use their position on the edge of the Arab nations to distance themselves from becoming too Westernised and give themselves a bit of breathing space from toeing the EU line but then fall back on that EU support when someone from outside comes knocking, like Russia or other neighbours they can't be arsed with.
Click to expand...

They got €3billion yesterday from the EU to take in and "look after" the refugees.

Knowing them they will probably use it to buy more cheap oil from ISIS and more planes from USA
 
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Erdogan is meddling in this situation from every angle, to ensure his power grows within Turkey itself.

Very soon he will amend the constitution (Putin style) to ensure he cannot be replaced, and is aiming to dive into the slush fund that is the current EU.

His shooting down of the Russian plane leaves NATO no choice but to back him, and please don't tell me he didn't know and plan that from the start.
He has turned a blind eye to the refugee smugglers, and is well aware that the EU are terrified of the 2 1/2 million refugees currently camped in Turkey, with the key to the floodgates firmly in Erdogan's hands.

He is giving ground on Cyprus, to appease the EU, and remove a major obstacle from Turkey's membership chances.

He is manoevering Turkey into a position where the EU and Nato have no choice but to give in to his demands.
 
French journalist Nicolas Henin – who spent 10 months in close contact with Daesh as a hostage – says the West bombing them is what they want:

“Why are we making so many mistakes? Why are people so misunderstanding their vision?”

He also says Daesh hated seeing Syrian refugees being welcomed by the West and that we should be providing no fly zones in some areas of Syria instead of bombing it.

The full interview:

http://linkis.com/wordpress.com/7Pt5E
 
UN security council resolution 2249, passed in the aftermath of the Paris attacks, does not give clear and unambiguous authorisation for UK airstrikes. But it’s a welcome framework, for example, for action by UN member states to cut off funding, oil revenues and arms supplies from Isil territory.

There’s little sign, however, of that happening in earnest. Nor is there yet any serious evidence that it’s being used to coordinate international military or diplomatic strategy in Syria, despite the clear risk of potentially disastrous incidents, such as the shooting down of a Russian military aircraft by Turkish forces.
The prime minister has avoided spelling out to the British people the warnings he has surely been given about the likely impact of British airstrikes in Syria on the threat of terrorist attacks in the UK. And he’s offered no serious assessment of the impact of an intensified air campaign on civilian casualties in Isil-held Syrian territory, or on the wider Syrian refugee crisis.

Most importantly, Cameron has been entirely unable to explain how UK bombing in Syria would contribute to a comprehensive negotiated political settlement of the Syrian war. That is widely understood to be the only way to ensure the defeat of Isil in the country. Isil grew out of the invasion of Iraq, but it has flourished in Syria in the chaos and horror of a multi-front civil war.

Jeremy Corbyn.

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ing-syria-isil-work-jihadist?CMP=share_btn_tw
 
MARKakaJIM said:
Surely leaving it for Assad to deal with is just the same as doing nothing? Or are you proposing that the UK actively back Assad as Russia are now doing?

Even then, do you not think that if Assad was capable of 'sorting them out' he would've already done so by now? Syria has been in civil war for years by this point, IS was born out of the mess that Assad made so it's very unlikely he's going to be the one to clean things up.

I'm starting to feel like Turkey are as much of a problem in this conflict as pretty much anyone else, fingers in lots of pies with little concern for anything other than themselves, you'd think having a European yet Muslim nation right on the edge of this conflict would be almost the perfect go between but they're more of an obstruction as far as I can see, almost as if they're playing everyone off against each other at times.
Click to expand...

The way I see it is that the more we intervene in this area the worse the place seems to get, the more we look like imperialist aggressors and the more we make ourselves a target for these nutters.

And for what? We can't win this war because all the factions currently occupying the land are unthinkable propositions for future governance and a west-backed government will just feed whatever remnants of IS are left over for them to start again somewhere else.

So lets let the least unthinkable party win the war and let the Russians help in whatever way they want.
 
Bit on the shaggies said:
The way I see it is that the more we intervene in this area the worse the place seems to get, the more we look like imperialist aggressors and the more we make ourselves a target for these nutters.

And for what? We can't win this war because all the factions currently occupying the land are unthinkable propositions for future governance and a west-backed government will just feed whatever remnants of IS are left over for them to start again somewhere else.

So lets let the least unthinkable party win the war and let the Russians help in whatever way they want.
Click to expand...
So you do advocate doing nothing then?
 
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