January 2022 Transfer Thread

[Jinky]

There are hundreds of examples of young players that showed promise and got hyped up, and hundreds that developed late (Kane/Vardy etc). The comparison conversation is an odd one, because it can be spun whichever side of the coin you sit on.

All we have to judge Fabio on so far is his performances in a Wolves shirt. And whilst I think he'll have a reasonable career, scoring a few goals - I don't think the signs are there that he is this "generational talent" that my old pal Mr. Shi spoke of. But then players develop differently so it's impossible to say. What weighs heavily on Fabio's shoulders is his price tag; whether he admits it or not.

I get the point being made earlier in the thread about there being lots of other players of a similar age that are more PL ready, or that are currently playing more regularly at a similar age - so this isn't something Fabio should hide behind.

Livramento has been fantastic for Southampton, Harvey Elliot has played 4 times for Liverpool this season and not looked out of place, Greenwood, Bukayo Saka are all 19.

Martinelli, Billy Gilmour, Luke Thomas, Jacob Ramsey, Anthony Gordon, Neco Williams, Hudon-Odoi, Skipp, Brandon Williams,Lamptey, Sancho, Moise Kean, Ben Johnson, Tavares and obviously Phil Foden are all 20/21.

I would say all of the players above look far more "PL ready" than Fabio, but equally, no one can predict where their careers will go as they get older.

 

[WsWolf]

There are hundreds of examples of young players that showed promise and got hyped up, and hundreds that developed late (Kane/Vardy etc). The comparison conversation is an odd one, because it can be spun whichever side of the coin you sit on.

All we have to judge Fabio on so far is his performances in a Wolves shirt. And whilst I think he'll have a reasonable career, scoring a few goals - I don't think the signs are there that he is this "generational talent" that my old pal Mr. Shi spoke of. But then players develop differently so it's impossible to say. What weighs heavily on Fabio's shoulders is his price tag; whether he admits it or not.

I get the point being made earlier in the thread about there being lots of other players of a similar age that are more PL ready, or that are currently playing more regularly at a similar age - so this isn't something Fabio should hide behind.

Livramento has been fantastic for Southampton, Harvey Elliot has played 4 times for Liverpool this season and not looked out of place, Greenwood, Bukayo Saka are all 19.

Martinelli, Billy Gilmour, Luke Thomas, Jacob Ramsey, Anthony Gordon, Neco Williams, Hudon-Odoi, Skipp, Brandon Williams,Lamptey, Sancho, Moise Kean, Ben Johnson, Tavares and obviously Phil Foden are all 20/21.

I would say all of the players above look far more "PL ready" than Fabio, but equally, no one can predict where their careers will go as they get older.

What do all of them have in common? Not one of them is a proper centre forward. Forward players who have success early in their career are either freaks like Rooney who had a body like a 30 year old bloke or players who are very quick. I can't think of a single 9 in tbe same ilk as Fabio Silva who has played and scored regularly in the premier league, that's around 20 odd years of watching. Even players like Jeffers who I'd class as similar and moved for big money didn't ever get more than a handful of goals a year.

Moise Kean looked absolutely useless for Everton and scored a total of about 3 goals in 30 games before they bounced him out on loan..

 

[Jinky]

What do all of them have in common? Not one of them is a proper centre forward. Forward players who have success early in their career are either freaks like Rooney who had a body like a 30 year old bloke or players who are very quick. I can't think of a single 9 in tbe same ilk as Fabio Silva who has played and scored regularly in the premier league, that's around 20 odd years of watching. Even players like Jeffers who I'd class as similar and moved for big money didn't ever get more than a handful of goals a year.

Moise Kean looked absolutely useless for Everton and scored a total of about 3 goals in 30 games before they bounced him out on loan..

Well Moise Kean has scored over 10 goals in both Serie A & Ligue 1. If we loaned Fabio to the Championship tomorrow I doubt he'd score 10 goals this season - but it's all speculation.

I appreciate his position probably makes it more unlikely that he'll be an early success story. My previous post was just pointing out there are players of a similar age to him already playing at the top level and succeeding. But as I said, it's a pointless debate in a lot of ways; because we won't know exactly how any of those players will develop until it happens. What we absolutely should not have done, is spent £35m on him and put ourselves in a position where we were unable to improve the squad elsewhere for 2 or so seasons...

 

[The Bear]

Silva has done fine so far given his game time. When he was relied upon he didn't look a world beater but he did ok in a tough league. At only 18 you could argue he did better than expected. He scored a few goals and showed some promise.

Still way too early to judge though. When he's 21 and filled out a bit more we'll have a better understanding if he's gonna be good. Early signs would suggest yes, if not a massive trajectory to superstardom. But then again you never know.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I think Fabio would comfortably score more than 10 in the Championship. (for anyone as good/better than mid table)

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

What we absolutely should not have done, is spent £35m on him and put ourselves in a position where we were unable to improve the squad elsewhere for 2 or so seasons...

The two elements don't tie together.

We shouldn't have paid £35m, agreed, but even after we did that, we could have improved other areas, we had/have the wherewithal to do so. We chose not to.

 

[Johnny75]

To go back to the original point some pages ago a net zero spend is all well and good if your reinvestment is in good players. Currently Fabio isn’t ready or a good player.

Not backing Bruno in the summer but spending £70m on one average PL full back and a player who may never make it is an abysmal strategy and I hope Bruno is challenging this strategy in the club and giving Sellars and Shi the shit they deserve.

 

[Jinky]

To go back to the original point some pages ago a net zero spend is all well and good if your reinvestment is in good players. Currently Fabio isn’t ready or a good player.

Not backing Bruno in the summer but spending £70m on one average PL full back and a player who may never make it is an abysmal strategy and I hope Bruno is challenging this strategy in the club and giving Sellars and Shi the shit they deserve.

Agree entirely. I feel sorry for Fabio that his signing is directly linked to a lot of the frustration I have towards Jeff Shi and his/Fosun's business decisions. There was some shady shit talked about on here a while ago about Fabio's dad getting some money out of the deal which seemed dodgy and didn't sit well with me either.

All said, he seems like a nice lad and I want him to do well. I just have my doubts.

 

[AndyWolves]

Silva was joint second highest goal scorer and second highest assister last season.

Silva was directly involved in 20% of our PL goals last season.

I'm not saying he's ready, but there is something there to work with for sure.

 

[WsWolf]

Well Moise Kean has scored goals over 10 goals in both Serie A & Ligue 1. If we loaned Fabio to the Championship tomorrow I doubt he'd score 10 goals this season - but it's all speculation.

I appreciate his position probably makes it more unlikely that he'll be an early success story. My previous post was just pointing out there are players of a similar age to him already playing at the top level and succeeding. But as I said, it's a pointless debate in a lot of ways; because we won't know exactly how any of those players will develop until it happens. What we absolutely should not have done, is spent £35m on him and put ourselves in a position where we were unable to improve the squad elsewhere for 2 or so seasons...

Cutrone scored more than that in Serie A. I don't see his return as impressive in any way. They are just slower developers in that position for a number of reasons, you only need to look at the current top centre forwards; Lewandowski, Kane, Ibrahimovic, Lukaku is probably the only one who made a serious dent at the top level under the age of 20 and he is another Rooney esque freak who was built like a fully grown bloke at 18.

 

[Johnny75]

Cutrone scored more than that in Serie A. I don't see his return as impressive in any way. They are just slower developers in that position for a number of reasons, you only need to look at the current top centre forwards; Lewandowski, Kane, Ibrahimovic, Lukaku is probably the only one who made a serious dent at the top level under the age of 20 and he is another Rooney esque freak who was built like a fully grown bloke at 18.

For £35m I want Lukaku at 20.

 

[Tony Towner]

No issue with the sentiment of top strikers often taking time to develop. It just enforces my view that spending that on a player where the development is so much in the realm of the unknown was ridiculous though even more so within the context of our wider spend

 

[Nando]

Cutrone scored more than that in Serie A. I don't see his return as impressive in any way. They are just slower developers in that position for a number of reasons, you only need to look at the current top centre forwards; Lewandowski, Kane, Ibrahimovic, Lukaku is probably the only one who made a serious dent at the top level under the age of 20 and he is another Rooney esque freak who was built like a fully grown bloke at 18.

Haaland would be the main outlier, but then he is a complete freak of nature. 70 in 69 Bundesliga appearances at 21 is astonishing and already approaching 150 career goals.

 

[WsWolf]

For £35m I want Lukaku at 20.

Cost about that much a decade ago. I want to pay 50p for a pint but it's not likely to happen is it?

 

[WsWolf]

Haaland would be the main outlier, but then he is a complete freak of nature. 70 in 69 Bundesliga appearances at 21 is astonishing and already approaching 150 career goals.

Criminal forgetting him. As you say though he's absolutely frightening. He reminds me a lot of Bale during that first good spurs season, similar gait I think.

 

[Johnny75]

Cost about that much a decade ago. I want to pay 50p for a pint but it's not likely to happen is it?

€12m from Anderlecht to Chelsea. Allowing for inflation that’s still nowhere near what we paid for Silva.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

He was 21 when he signed for Everton for £28m (having had a season loan there beforehand which would also have cost them). That was 2014. What's that now, £50m, more?

Chelsea signed him when he was 18 and had one year left on his deal. He then did absolutely fuck all in his first season, a mighty 12 appearances and 0 goals, in a team that won the Champions League and FA Cup.

It's not a fair comparison.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Football inflation isn’t accurate because Barcelona were total morons. To the point they have now pretty much put themselves out of business despite it being almost impossible to fail in that league given the bias in finance distribution.

 

[Johnny75]

Haaland would be the main outlier, but then he is a complete freak of nature. 70 in 69 Bundesliga appearances at 21 is astonishing and already approaching 150 career goals.

€7.5m from Molde to RB Salzburg at 18 and Leeds didn’t bid enough apparently.

€20m from Salzburg to Dortmund. How nobody else bid that much I’ll never know.

 

[Johnny75]

He was 21 when he signed for Everton for £28m (having had a season loan there beforehand which would also have cost them). That was 2014. What's that now, £50m, more?

Chelsea signed him when he was 18 and had one year left on his deal. He then did absolutely fuck all in his first season, a mighty 12 appearances and 0 goals, in a team that won the Champions League and FA Cup.

It's not a fair comparison.

It’s absolutely a fair comparison. Chelsea bought Lukaku at 18 having banged loads of goals at youth and senior level.