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Farage Ltd and Similar Watch

From an entirely personal viewpoint, I see no reason why there shouldn't be a referendum held after the next election. If there is I think the result wouldn't be a landslide, but would be in favour of remaining in Europe (again that is purely my personal feeling and I haven't got anything to back it up - finger in the wind stuff really).

Your comment about the Europhiles is just basically the obverse of what Farage is doing now isn't it? He just is scaring us to death about the millions of immigrants without explaining to me the benefits of leaving a free trade zone. I want to know what I am going to get for my extra import duties that will potentially be paid for anything I buy from Europe (same as I end up paying tax for goods from the States).

The French are pissed off with the Euro direction at the moment, for sure. They think that Germany has too much power and believe they should be running the joint.
 
The thing that surprises me is that the people who rail against the big corporates, their power, their friends in high places and their globalisation are the same people who want to remain in Europe.
I am against the big corporates, their dominance has destroyed the high street, and is destroying not just the 'British way of life' and traditions, but also the 'French way of life' and their traditions, the 'Irish way of life' and their traditions etc etc. I don't want us all to be the same, I left England partly because I thought it was crap only to find the same ways are gradually taking over here as well, idle council officials and politicians poking their fucking noses into other peoples business for one whilst feathering their own nests at the same time with their expense accounts and insider dealing. The people who are behind it all are in it solely for themselves for power and money in a Blairlike, Ashdownlike, Blatterlike way. Lazy parasitic arseholes who wouldn't know a days work if it jumped up and bit them.
You're either in the barrow or you're pushing it.
And Goebbels was an amateur.
 
Johnny75 said:
Papper, I agree with you but the problems are of our own making not of Europe's. If there were no jobs here for foreigners (not immigrants) to take there would be no immigration. That's just not practical or real. There will always be human rubbish that selfishly do not want to contribute to society much as there will be people that are not happy with resting on their laurels. I would say a lot of immigration is the latter rather than the former and want a better life. I'm not sure they know when they get here that it isn't a bed of roses.
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That human rubbish numbers appx 2.5M of our population unemployed and looking for work. They have to be fed and looked after while contributing absolutely nothing. Either you cut their benefits and write them off or invest money in getting them back to work. The latter is impossible if you fill those positions with cheap foreign labour. That 2.5 have to be fed, housed and their medical needs paid for on top of what gets paid out to economic migrants. It is a ridiculous situation and one that has failed - hence the apology from New Labour.
 
arklowolf said:
The thing that surprises me is that the people who rail against the big corporates, their power, their friends in high places and their globalisation are the same people who want to remain in Europe.
I am against the big corporates, their dominance has destroyed the high street, and is destroying not just the 'British way of life' and traditions, but also the 'French way of life' and their traditions, the 'Irish way of life' and their traditions etc etc. I don't want us all to be the same, I left England partly because I thought it was crap only to find the same ways are gradually taking over here as well, idle council officials and politicians poking their fucking noses into other peoples business for one whilst feathering their own nests at the same time with their expense accounts and insider dealing. The people who are behind it all are in it solely for themselves for power and money in a Blairlike, Ashdownlike, Blatterlike way. Lazy parasitic arseholes who wouldn't know a days work if it jumped up and bit them.
You're either in the barrow or you're pushing it.
And Goebbels was an amateur.
Click to expand...

Whereas the thing that gets me is the people who are most in favour of global capitalism, freedom of markets, "flexible" labour forces etc are the ones who rail against its inevitable consequence - people moving around to be where the work is and trying to better their lives. It's almost like *they* want freedom but are not prepared to grant it to others.
 
So Long Architect said:
Whereas the thing that gets me is the people who are most in favour of global capitalism, freedom of markets, "flexible" labour forces etc are the ones who rail against its inevitable consequence - people moving around to be where the work is and trying to better their lives. It's almost like *they* want freedom but are not prepared to grant it to others.
Click to expand...

There is no free or flexible labour market if there is disparity in the EU nations in terms of average national wage etc. It is not a level playing field. The EU does not pay the unemployed in this country it is down to the British taxpayer.
 
Papper said:
There is no free or flexible labour market if there is disparity in the EU nations in terms of average national wage etc. It is not a level playing field. The EU does not pay the unemployed in this country it is down to the British taxpayer.
Click to expand...

But it was more or less a level playing field until the rich nations needed some more people to flog their goods to without having import duties on said goods.
 
Papper said:
That human rubbish numbers appx 2.5M of our population unemployed and looking for work. They have to be fed and looked after while contributing absolutely nothing. Either you cut their benefits and write them off or invest money in getting them back to work. The latter is impossible if you fill those positions with cheap foreign labour. That 2.5 have to be fed, housed and their medical needs paid for on top of what gets paid out to economic migrants. It is a ridiculous situation and one that has failed - hence the apology from New Labour.
Click to expand...

Not everybody unemployed or claiming benefits wants to be there or can be classed as human rubbish. It is most probably a fraction of the number you have quoted. However, they do exist. There are many disabled and unable to work folk and they are not human rubbish either. It is those that think the state owes them a living that will prevent the UK fulfilling its total number of jobs filled by those able to work. The gap will be filled by immigration if it's the easiest to do, simple supply and demand. If those immigrants are paying tax what does it matter? I still haven't seen one instance of anybody saying immigrants are stealing their jobs, even though that is what is claimed.

Papper said:
There is no free or flexible labour market if there is disparity in the EU nations in terms of average national wage etc. It is not a level playing field. The EU does not pay the unemployed in this country it is down to the British taxpayer.
Click to expand...

That's unfortunately the rub and where the Union does not work, but would you rather have more bureaucrats sorting through work permits for people that want to come to the UK and the reams of paperwork for conducting business across Europe. It's not perfect at the moment and there are customers of mine that would prefer the EU didn't exist too. The one thing we all have in common is the need for a free trade market.
 
So Long Architect said:
Whereas the thing that gets me is the people who are most in favour of global capitalism, freedom of markets, "flexible" labour forces etc are the ones who rail against its inevitable consequence - people moving around to be where the work is and trying to better their lives. It's almost like *they* want freedom but are not prepared to grant it to others.
Click to expand...

No they don't.
 
Johnny75 said:
Not everybody unemployed or claiming benefits wants to be there or can be classed as human rubbish. It is most probably a fraction of the number you have quoted. However, they do exist. There are many disabled and unable to work folk and they are not human rubbish either. It is those that think the state owes them a living that will prevent the UK fulfilling its total number of jobs filled by those able to work. The gap will be filled by immigration if it's the easiest to do, simple supply and demand. If those immigrants are paying tax what does it matter? I still haven't seen one instance of anybody saying immigrants are stealing their jobs, even though that is what is claimed.
Click to expand...

I am talking about 2.5 unemployed and seeking work. I didn't refer to them as human rubbish and I didn't claim Immigrants are stealing their jobs. If economic migrants can find work then why can't the 2.5 million? My whole point is that is sheer stupidity to encourage economic migration when there are people unemployed that are quite capable of doing these jobs. I refuse to write them off or call them human rubbish. An economic migrant on minimum wage is taking more than they are giving in tax.
 
It's too simplistic to think all the unemployed could fill jobs when they clearly can't or in some cases wont. Do you want to force them into work camps? It doesn't solve that some people are better off not working than working. Especially with costs of childcare and even the cost of going to work. That needs to be solved but nobody is in a rush to do this which I find odd.
 
So Long Architect said:
Whereas the thing that gets me is the people who are most in favour of global capitalism, freedom of markets, "flexible" labour forces etc are the ones who rail against its inevitable consequence - people moving around to be where the work is and trying to better their lives. It's almost like *they* want freedom but are not prepared to grant it to others.
Click to expand...

Work permits. :nod:

If someone's got a job to go to or was headhunted then there's no problem.
They've been leaving Ireland for Australia and Canada in droves since the EU economic experiment failed.
It works like this:
Those who want work leave.
Those who want benefits arrive.
Those employed by the EU state in the benefits office etc are financed by the few left working and subsidised by Britain, Germany and France.
Those who can't get work and have paid into the system for years can't get anything.
Seems fair to them. Not to me.
 
Johnny75 said:
It's too simplistic to think all the unemployed could fill jobs when they clearly can't or in some cases wont. Do you want to force them into work camps? It doesn't solve that some people are better off not working than working. Especially with costs of childcare and even the cost of going to work. That needs to be solved but nobody is in a rush to do this which I find odd.
Click to expand...

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/migrants-uk-labour-market-overview
 
Papper said:
http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/migrants-uk-labour-market-overview
Click to expand...

I don't see your point Papper. You can't force people into work if they don't want to. That's just life and the immigrants are fulfilling a need. We've been down this road before and it ends with neither of us agreeing. If UKIP's sole argument is that immigrants are fulfilling a need that UK residents could but don't want to then that's a pretty slim manifesto. And very small minded.
 
The irony of UKIP voters is that many of them upon retirement do so to Europe. Cake and eat it.
 
Lord Knows said:
The irony of UKIP voters is that many of them upon retirement do so to Europe. Cake and eat it.
Click to expand...

This statement is ironic and untrue.
Most UKIP voters are working class and can't afford to retire to Europe. Particularly as their pensions are all but worthless due to Labour's mismanagement of the banking sector and economy.
Besides which, it's unlikely that they will ever be able to retire if the pension age keeps being raised.
It's the Labour voters who retire to Europe with their state funded, nailed on, early retirement, pensions. The 'outer party' at it again.

Besides even if the statement were true, UKIP voters would hardly be retiring to Romania or Bulgaria and if they did they wouldn't be sponging off the welfare.
 
arklowolf said:
This statement is ironic and untrue.
Most UKIP voters are working class and can't afford to retire to Europe. Particularly as their pensions are all but worthless due to Labour's mismanagement of the banking sector and economy.
Besides which, it's unlikely that they will ever be able to retire if the pension age keeps being raised.
It's the Labour voters who retire to Europe with their state funded, nailed on, early retirement, pensions. The 'outer party' at it again.

Besides even if the statement were true, UKIP voters would hardly be retiring to Romania or Bulgaria and if they did they wouldn't be sponging off the welfare.
Click to expand...

Labour mismanaged the banking sector and the economy?
 
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