Fans Against VAR - Join us

[Kenny]

I do love it when someone pops along and we get

- Please support my idea
- Ok, those responses aren't all in favour of my work
- Shit..they are getting angry at me
- Right, I am getting angry back
- Fuck your forum, I shall never return and may your teams form be shit and VAR destroys you
- That said, I'll stick around for a read incase someone agrees with me
- Great now someone has something else I don't agree with, best pop back on in a semi angry manner and hope they forgot about my fuck you point.

 

[The Bear]

I'm a firm believer that the on field referee should make all the decisions and not be overruled by a bloke in his ear.

VAR should be there to assist the referee and bring to his attention any decisions which could be potentially incorrect. If there is a reasonable doubt over a decision the ref should be asked to take another look on the monitor and decide for himself if he wants to change his decision or not. There shouldn't be this stigma that if he's asked to look at the monitor then he's gotten it wrong. That just puts undue pressure on him to change his decision, or the VAR official to just leave it and not bother when it should be looked at.

The whole reason we are having problems is as mentioned above. Clear & Obvious. It's too high a bar and means decisions are not getting looked at through fear, unnecessary pressure on officials, and protecting each others backs.

Also, it needs to be independently run and overseen away from PGMOL. Current Premier League refs cannot be on VAR. Use ex refs, lower league refs, pundits, ex players or just people who test well in training. Anyone should be able to apply, but will have to go through multiple decision scenarios and know the rules inside out.

Finally, VAR officials who make awful mistakes of judgment (not procedural mistakes) should be removed from VAR duties permanently or until after a period of retraining and assessment. I'm sure there are plenty of people who'd like the job throughout the football pyramid and other sports.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I don’t think I really need another go petal.

I assume your main employment is in the diplomatic corps. You really aren’t bringing a lot of love to your campaign with the way you are selling it.

We have had VAR in our games since it began. By my last count VAR has been involved in zero Oxford United games.

So if those of us with all the experience of the system tell you the issue isn’t the existence of the system but the corrupt gimps in charge of it, we probably know what we are talking about.

 

[Stan Hullis]

This is the equivalent to me starting a campaign against winning the lottery because I wouldn't know how to spend the money.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

As a final point we have been let down three times by my count this season. No -penalty at Old Trafford, penalty award to Luton, penalty award to Newcastle.

Without VAR those decisions would have remained the same as the issue for us has been the VAR operator looking at an obviously wrong decision and failing to overturn his mate’s duff decision.

 

[fansagainstvar]

I don’t think I really need another go petal.

I assume your main employment is in the diplomatic corps. You really aren’t bringing a lot of love to your campaign with the way you are selling it.

We have had VAR in our games since it began. By my last count VAR has been involved in zero Oxford United games.

So if those of us with all the experience of the system tell you the issue isn’t the existence of the system but the corrupt gimps in charge of it, we probably know what we are talking

I'm a UN negotiator in my day job

I just feel the need to correct you, you have made some assertions about the campaign that are outright wrong.
1) I support Manchester United
2) I have not experienced VAR. I have seen VAR operated in four different countries as it goes.

Just because you are not personally affected by something does not mean you have no right to comment about it or do not know what you are talking about. I have been at games with VAR and I have hated the wait after you score, for me, you lose that moment of a goal and that is not football anymore.
Edit: There is an Israel-Palestine thread on this very forum I've just noticed! You will laugh at making that comparison, but the argument you are making is "not affected! don't comment". Exact same thing! We are allowed opinions and you are welcome to disagree, but my opinion is equal to yours and I have experienced VAR as it goes anyway.

If you could only comment on things that directly affected you then everyone would be quiet on various issues around the world. People give opinions about all manner of things and that is part of discourse. I have spoken to EFL and SPFL referees about VAR.

Part of the campaign is trying to stop VAR being introduced to the Championship.

VAR was (despite someone denying this) sold to fans that it would be used for clear and obvious errors. https://www.premierleague.com/news/1297392

It actually checks everything for far too long.

Some of you think VAR can be improved, an argument I am actually sympathetic to. Ruling goals out because someone's little-toe is offside is obviously against the spirit of the offside law and I expect even you believe that, Paddington Wolf.

You can insult the campaign all you like, it does have supporters with many supporters becoming increasingly aware that humans = human error and you may as well enjoy football how we enjoyed it for years, rather than triple jumping to a wrong decision and killing the moment.

It's fine you disagree though. If we all agreed the world would be boring. Needlessly mocking each other is silly and I'm half at fault for getting my elbows in myself.

Also, whilst I said I hope VAR continues to be terrible and limits value for money for your seat, I realise that seemed anti-Wovles. Got no problem with any football club, I actually think Wolves is quite a 'cool' club with its history, kit and crest. Nothing against Wolves, still one I'm sadly yet to tick off on the 92.

I know James Henry played for you guys, I know you have far better players but have to say he has been an excellent "servent" for Oxford United. A real "top pro" type character, mr. reliable. Sadly injuries mean he's possibly right at the end of his career. Great guy.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

We definitely agree on James Henry. Excellent when we were in the doldrums thanks to that wanker Saunders. Still a good player at the lower levels I am sure.

I think there would be a fair bit of push back from the clubs to VAR being extended down the leagues. Installing the technology isn’t cheap and the championship isn’t awash with money.

Offside is the interesting one. It’s factual and binary - you are either offside or not so it should be prime ground for the system to approach perfection. And yet the idiots played with it and you get a foolish decision like Bamford being called offside by the t-shirt line for pointing where he wanted the ball played. That decision was stupid.

The lines and taking the same amount of time to make a decision as a 5 year old would take to read War and Peace is a big frustration there. GPS and semi automated offside should actually be possible. It keeps the PGMOL out of the decision which is guaranteed improvement.

I stick with my initial contention that the officials are the big part of the problem. They are incompetent and now have started taking junkets to officiate in the oil states. Leaves them completely open to corruption.

 

[Alan]

Henry was a baller for the levels we were at. He and Michael Jacobs together were brilliant.

Never wanna go back, but I look back on the KJ days fondly for the most part.

 

[fansagainstvar]

We definitely agree on James Henry. Excellent when we were in the doldrums thanks to that wanker Saunders. Still a good player at the lower levels I am sure.

I think there would be a fair bit of push back from the clubs to VAR being extended down the leagues. Installing the technology isn’t cheap and the championship isn’t awash with money.

Offside is the interesting one. It’s factual and binary - you are either offside or not so it should be prime ground for the system to approach perfection. And yet the idiots played with it and you get a foolish decision like Bamford being called offside by the t-shirt line for pointing where he wanted the ball played. That decision was stupid.

The lines and taking the same amount of time to make a decision as a 5 year old would take to read War and Peace is a big frustration there. GPS and semi automated offside should actually be possible. It keeps the PGMOL out of the decision which is guaranteed improvement.

I stick with my initial contention that the officials are the big part of the problem. They are incompetent and now have started taking junkets to officiate in the oil states. Leaves them completely open to corruption.

Hey mate, respect for this reply. Makes me feel bad for getting my elbows in!

I actually don't think offside is binary. I would like to see a grey area introduced, or at least if any part of the body is onside it's a goal. Players are not trying to cheat by being 1mm ahead of another player. Also, due to frame rates, we actually cannot factually tell when the ball was EXACTLY released. We pretend to know it down to the millimeter but actually we don't.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1585400763160952851

Football is an art not a science, VAR will always be run by the same officials who make mistakes on the pitch. Maybe it can "improve" but it will never work in the way particularly matchgoing fans want it to. How longs it been going now, 4+ years, zero improvement. It will never work.
Humans = Human error.
Interpretation of laws = subjective.
Waiting to celebrate = kills the passion.

Some of that is opinion, but some is fact too. Let's see. 30,000 have signed the petition to scrap VAR and enjoy football the way we did for 100+ years.

Both of us fell in love with this sport when officials got decisions wrong. They always will. It's part of football. Football reflects life. Life is imperfect.

 

[fansagainstvar]

Henry was a baller for the levels we were at. He and Michael Jacobs together were brilliant.

Never wanna go back, but I look back on the KJ days fondly for the most part.

Obviously you guys have amazing technical players now, but Henry is a real "rolls royce" footballer at that level. He has never relied on pace, but he possesses brilliant skill and is a lovely player to watch. Probably one of the most "ultimate pro" guys I've seen, must set a great example to the youngsters.

We had Forde too, he was ok, not too pacy for a winger but crossing was decent. Now mainly played full back I believe. Apparently he was another nice lad.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I have made the frame rates argument many times on here. You can’t measure by a millimetre when closing speed of two objects is greater than 1mm / per frame.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Obviously you guys have amazing technical players now, but Henry is a real "rolls royce" footballer at that level. He has never relied on pace, but he possesses brilliant skill and is a lovely player to watch. Probably one of the most "ultimate pro" guys I've seen, must set a great example to the youngsters.

We had Forde too, he was ok, not too pacy for a winger but crossing was decent. Now mainly played full back I believe. Apparently he was another nice lad.

In that league one title side Kevin McDonald was an absolute cheat code and Sam Ricketts was also fantastic.

 

[YoungWolf]

Henry was a baller for the levels we were at. He and Michael Jacobs together were brilliant.

Never wanna go back, but I look back on the KJ days fondly for the most part.

At one point we had a three of Sako, Jacobs and Henry behind Dicko. Completely unfair at that level. Tbf to Dave Edwards he then muscled his way in with a good run of goals too!

 

[fansagainstvar]

I have made the frame rates argument many times on here. You can’t measure by a millimetre when closing speed of two objects is greater than 1mm / per frame.

If VAR has to stay (which I'm against) they MUST introduce a "margin of error". This would be a grey space either side of the line.

I am a FIRM believer, if you need lines to tell, it is not offside. We must remember why the offside law was introduced in the first place, it was never to disallow goals over someone's elbow. Football fans must be adults and accept offside is an imperfect science.

They must also adapt the laws.

1) You cannot look at incidents in slow-motion. Football does not take place in slow-motion, it distorts human interpretation.
2) The threshold for a "handball" penalty changes. Gone so far from deliberate handball it's ludicrous. They cater for cry-baby television fans.

 

[fansagainstvar]

In that league one title side Kevin McDonald was an absolute cheat code and Sam Ricketts was also fantastic.

The standard of League One this season has dipped with no Ipswich or Portsmouth, the championship sides which replaced them are not up to much.

I don't mind League One, it's just about affordable and the standard of football is ok. Oxford is the worst away day ever at the moment, out of town, crap stadium, but hopefully next time you guys visit we will play at a brand spanking new stadium right next to Oxford Parkway trainstation. https://www.oufc.co.uk/news/2023/october/new-stadium-details/

If you get a pre-season at that new stadium you will all have a good time on the beers in the city.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

And they still don’t get it right. They re wrote the instruction to specifically say that the handball given against Joao Gomes should not be handball, and the idiot officials decided that unnatural position trumped deflection which was just straight wrong. This was a case where the law was actually clear, the replay was clear, the interpretation by the officials was completely wrong.

They have made handball complex simply because their own incompetence has them tying themselves in knots.

I remember the officials at lower levels being equally rubbish too. The officials in professional football in England are appalling. When we were enjoying our Europa League run (cheers Covid - I still reckon we would have beaten Sevilla over two legs) the difference in the standard of officiating was night and day. We all said it at the time.

 

[Johnny75]

If VAR has to stay (which I'm against) they MUST introduce a "margin of error". This would be a grey space either side of the line.

I am a FIRM believer, if you need lines to tell, it is not offside. We must remember why the offside law was introduced in the first place, it was never to disallow goals over someone's elbow. Football fans must be adults and accept offside is an imperfect science.

They must also adapt the laws.

1) You cannot look at incidents in slow-motion. Football does not take place in slow-motion, it distorts human interpretation.
2) The threshold for a "handball" penalty changes. Gone so far from deliberate handball it's ludicrous. They cater for cry-baby television fans.

There is so much wrong in there it's hilarious.

What you want is the game to go back to how it was with all those shit decisions because thems the breaks.

It isn't going back to the 'good old days' which are completely subjective anyway.

You're howling at the moon if you think the authorities are going to take your rule changes seriously (which is what this is about) no matter how many names you put on a batshit piece of paper.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

The Kassam is not great I admit, but I went to the Manor Ground. It feels like the Nou Camp by comparison to your old place!

 

[fansagainstvar]

There is so much wrong in there it's hilarious.

What you want is the game to go back to how it was with all those shit decisions because thems the breaks.

It isn't going back to the 'good old days' which are completely subjective anyway.

You're howling at the moon if you think the authorities are going to take your rule changes seriously (which is what this is about) no matter how many names you put on a batshit piece of paper.

How it was, and how it always will be, by the way. Whether you have VAR or not.

Edit: It is wrong in your opinion. Not factually wrong.

 

[fansagainstvar]

The Kassam is not great I admit, but I went to the Manor Ground. It feels like the Nou Camp by comparison to your old place!

Fans have a massive fondness of that stadium, a bit like i imagine Wolves fans sometimes miss the terraces at your ground of old. The club pay extortionate rent for an out of town hellhole. If they play in the city they'll get nice attendances and maybe establish in the Championship. Were probably punching above our weight in the first division in the 1980s.