[FA Cup 3rd Rnd] Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[The Saturday Boy]

I don’t think that is given as offside pre VAR. Thierry Henry was scoring “offside” goals 20 years ago.

I can handle this decision as I think Toti should just clear it and it’s not even difficult.

There are countless times when a cross comes in and there is an offside player, a defender shanks a clearance and someone scores in the box or falls to someone on the edge who scores. Yes it’s rarely the offside player doing so but the point still stands.

Not saying I think it’s right or wrong but I’m OK with the decision, and it’s how rhe game has been for as long as I can remember.

The other decision is factually wrong though and that’s the annoyance.

I feel for Toti. He’s made a mistake which nearly cost us the game. He then gets a chance to win it at Anfield, in front of the fans, on TV and it’s robbed from him due to incompetence

Ok, assume I accept this…it doesn’t explain how what is written in the rules in then applied. A shanked clearance or an attempted headed clearance…both are still “attempted saves”.

It is difficult to not come over as argumentative but i just don’t understand. Part of that is due to it just feeling wrong…and I don’t think I am alone in this…but mainly it doesn’t make sense reading the rules.

The best justification given on here (for me) is whether it was close to the goal.

 

[Dire Wolf]

The problem that myself and maybe a minority of others have is that there is enough dodgy decision making in favour of certain 'big' clubs to put the idea that corruption could be involved. Let's face it, even in just financial terms, who out of Wolves and Liverpool is the FA going to want to see progressing further in the competition? Which of those 2 teams is going to generate more interest from TV companies, home and abroad, wanting to broadcast their games and therefore who is going to help generate more revenue?

Generally you don't want to think this way, but certain egregious decisions certainly start to bring the possibility of nefarious goings on to the front of your mind. Well, my mind anyway, but that could be because I'm a massive cynic about the amount of dodgy wealth sloshing around in football anyway. What, with the proliferation of gambling (which in itself opens sport up to suspicious activity) and sportswashing ownership, football's financing is certainly overdue for more in depth scrutiny and decisions like the 2 yesterday, in my eyes play into that discussion.

But as I said I'm a massive cynic, so I'm probably going to get the 'you need a tin foil hat' comments with some justification!

 

[Lupo]

I have read through the entire thread and don't have much to add to the VAR debate. We all know, they all know, everyone fucking knows we were robbed of a perfectly good goal.

As angry as I feel about all that I am also feeling so pleased and proud that we are now getting back to what we should be and feeling so relieved to have a proper manager at the helm who in such a short space of time has improved us no end, this is why top notch managers are so well remunerated, they DO make a difference.

Considering we made so many changes up against a full strength Liverpool side at Anfield and came out with a draw that should have been a win with so many top performances throughout the side gives much reason for optimism for the months ahead.

If Lop and his staff keep us up (looking far more hopeful than it was pre-World Cup) then have a proper tilt during the summer then next season should be much much better.

Back to last night, the players that came in gave good accounts of themselves and virtually every player looks so much better now. Great to see the much maligned Guedes and Hwang finally deliver. Lembitiska looked fine on the right and unphased by the occasion and what he was up against. Collins impressed again and seems to be growing now. RAN in a more advanced role works as his attacking play is excellent anyway and going forward allows us to accommodate both him and the excellent Bueno, lets just hope his injury isn't too bad.

Nunes continues to impress, he seems very capable when running into clumps of opposition players of keeping his composure and using his feet to come out still in possession then generally passes the ball well. As has already been said, his ability to bring the ball forward is a joy to watch.

An excellent performance from the team as a whole and I feel real pride every time they show Lop on the touchline barking out his orders and kicking every ball. When he and Neves came running out protesting the VAR bullshit was a joy to behold!

On to Forest on Wednesday night, more of the same and we have a semi to look forward to but more importantly, West Ham next Saturday. Let's start getting the points to ensure that this is just the start with The Lop!

 

[Carsy]

I have read through the entire thread and don't have much to add to the VAR debate. We all know, they all know, everyone fucking knows we were robbed of a perfectly good goal.

As angry as I feel about all that I am also feeling so pleased and proud that we are now getting back to what we should be and feeling so relieved to have a proper manager at the helm who in such a short space of time has improved us no end, this is why top notch managers are so well remunerated, they DO make a difference.

Considering we made so many changes up against a full strength Liverpool side at Anfield and came out with a draw that should have been a win with so many top performances throughout the side gives much reason for optimism for the months ahead.

If Lop and his staff keep us up (looking far more hopeful than it was pre-World Cup) then have a proper tilt during the summer then next season should be much much better.

Back to last night, the players that came in gave good accounts of themselves and virtually every player looks so much better now. Great to see the much maligned Guedes and Hwang finally deliver. Lembitiska looked fine on the right and unphased by the occasion and what he was up against. Collins impressed again and seems to be growing now. RAN in a more advanced role works as his attacking play is excellent anyway and going forward allows us to accommodate both him and the excellent Bueno, lets just hope his injury isn't too bad.

Nunes continues to impress, he seems very capable when running into clumps of opposition players of keeping his composure and using his feet to come out still in possession then generally passes the ball well. As has already been said, his ability to bring the ball forward is a joy to watch.

An excellent performance from the team as a whole and I feel real pride every time they show Lop on the touchline barking out his orders and kicking every ball. When he and Neves came running out protesting the VAR bullshit was a joy to behold!

On to Forest on Wednesday night, more of the same and we have a semi to look forward to but more importantly, West Ham next Saturday. Let's start getting the points to ensure that this is just the start with The Lop!

RAN going down the bale route of starting left back and moving forward. Anyone know whether he plays golf or not?

 

[Lupo]

RAN going down the bale route of starting left back and moving forward. Anyone know whether he plays golf or not?

As long as he steers clear of top knots!

 

[PuntsWolf]

Ok, assume I accept this…it doesn’t explain how what is written in the rules in then applied. A shanked clearance or an attempted headed clearance…both are still “attempted saves”.

It is difficult to not come over as argumentative but i just don’t understand. Part of that is due to it just feeling wrong…and I don’t think I am alone in this…but mainly it doesn’t make sense reading the rules.

The best justification given on here (for me) is whether it was close to the goal.

TT explained better than I will. Basically it’s considered a pass and not a “save”.

Whether you think it’s right or wrong or not is the sticking point. Personally I’m fine with it. He had the oppuortunity to clear a simple ball under no pressure (above the standard amount of playing in a top flight football match) and fucked it up (I think because he was trying to lamp it up the pitch with his head in a classic Toti over enthusiastic way). I’m looking at my defender more than being bailed out by a law that hasn’t been the case for as long as I can remember.

 

[Wulfie88]

 

[BillyDee]

A bit more clarification on this interpretation of the law:



Would the last two bullet points suggest Toti was not in control ergo Salah was offside?

 

[Tony Towner]

@PuntsWolf Yep it's seen the same as Collins for their first goal. He didn't mean it to go there but it did so because of his own poor technique as opposed to a ricochet

 

[The Saturday Boy]

A bit more clarification on this interpretation of the law:

View attachment 6669

Would the last two bullet points suggest Toti was not in control ergo Salah was offside?

Thank you. Makes me think more that Salah was offside and the rule is widely open to interpretation.

 

[sycophantia]

It appears by the letter of the law to be 'onside' or rather can be interpreted as such and that's the problem, the law is over complicated and open to too much ambiguity. Salah was in an offside position when the ball was played, was active in a goal scoring area and benefitted from being offside, it doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.
I know Toti should have cleared the ball easily but that shouldn't enter the debate.
Its the law that is ridiculous.
Anyway hope we stuff em at the Molineux.

 

[PuntsWolf]

To play devils advocate he didn’t benefit from being offside. He benefited from being passed the ball by a defender.

 

[AndyWolves]

To play devils advocate he didn’t benefit from being offside. He benefited from being passed the ball by a defender.

The rub is that Toti wouldn't have passed the ball had Salah not been there.

I don't how the law makers can put in wording that differentiates between a controlled pass and a defender being forced into an action by an offside player.

 

[sycophantia]

To play devils advocate he didn’t benefit from being offside. He benefited from being passed the ball by a defender.

Oh I understand that the laws can be interpreted that way but he was offside before Toti got involved, he benefitted from being offside after Toti fucked up. I just think the law is stupid and makes no sense.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

That’s semantics. He wouldn’t have been there to benefit without being offside

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I find it amusing that we have wolves fans on here “playing devils advocate” when RAWK is virtually in agreement that Salah should have been given offside as were two ex Liverpool players on MOTD

 

[sycophantia]

I find it amusing that we have wolves fans on here “playing devils advocate” when RAWK is virtually in agreement that Salah should have been given offside as were two ex Liverpool players on MOTD

Don't think anyone is really playing devil's advocate, just some are trying to put their idea of how the rule has been interpreted to come to the conclusion. Pretty much every football fan, player, ex player and pundit has said the rule is dumb and Salah goal should have been chalked off. We just have to persuade football officialdom of it...... Good luck with that.

 

[PuntsWolf]

The rub is that Toti wouldn't have passed the ball had Salah not been there.

I don't how the law makers can put in wording that differentiates between a controlled pass and a defender being forced into an action by an offside player.

I mean he would have played it. Defenders don’t just leave balls into their box. If he leaves it and Salah isn’t there then a FB/Winger could get on to that from deep. Long story short, defenders don’t leave those.

He’s not forced into anything. He heads away a ball into the box unchallenged like defenders to all game. This has been the rule for as long as I can remember. Defenders just rarely fuck up so badly so it doesn’t happen.

 

[WsWolf]

Not even going to get into the 2 ridiculously poor decisions.

Superb performance from a scratch side, organisation on point and we actually showed some really nice patterns of play. What a change Lopetegui has made in such a short period of time. After that I'm confident that with a few additions we will fly up the table.

 

[jd1981]

VAR just seems like a copper that’s always there when you commit the most minute offence but is totally awol when you’ve been robbed at gun point.