[FA Cup 3rd Rnd] Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[The Saturday Boy]

If you don't get it from my last description then there's nothing more I can say

Why wasn’t it a deliberate save by Toti?

 

[PuntsWolf]

Being cynical I would have thought the 6yards from the goal line would be quite crucial

Yep bud sadly not near the corner flag…

 

[Tony Towner]

Why wasn’t it a deliberate save by Toti?

I amended my previous post, but they see him as playing the ball as per the backpass analogy I gave previously

 

[PuntsWolf]

Not being prone to tinfoil hat theories after watching the BBC coverage numerous times, the linesman doesn't flag even after the ball went in and he definitely started moving back to the half way line, something's not right here

Like the blindsman got a signal or something?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1611874355675267072

Things are strange and I'm starting to worry...

My only justification here to avoid the conspiracies is that the linesman has mentioned live that he thinks Nunes is offside, hasn’t flagged as that’s the guidance, play has continued where there is another few close offside calls but deemed onside, ball goes in and then he “forgets” that he has originally said Nunes is offside, so is reminded to do the soft signal of offside. Obviously with the intention of VAR clarifying, which it then couldn’t do so had to go with on field call…

 

[Dire Wolf]

I amended my previous post, but they see him as playing the ball as per the backpass analogy I gave previously

I think you're trying to find reason in what was an unreasonable decision.

 

[Tony Towner]

You can try and understand how the decision was made or just scream it's unfair. Your call.



For me the law is the issue moreso than the decision, because it is too open to interpretation and advantages the attacking side too much

 

[James]

One takeaway from last night is Julen Lopetegui’s passion for his team is night and day compared to Bruno’s relaxed style. Julen looks like a true leader.

In regards to the “guessing” linesman I hope someone pisses on his cornflakes this morning.

 

[Carsy]

I think you're trying to find reason in what was an unreasonable decision.

My understanding is by the rule it’s offside unfortunately. A ridiculous rule IMO though.

Nunes offsidegoal I just accepted he was offside as lineman’s flagged, however with all the pictures that have been released then it looks the total wrong decision? Not sure if that makes me a hypocrite or notbut there we are.

I’m trying not to get to hung up on it. Main thing is that we are starting to look like a coherent team and there is plenty of positives. Although, a draw is the worst result we could’ve got. Don’t need another game.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

I think you're trying to find reason in what was an unreasonable decision.

I understand why when a defender plays the ball deliberately, as in a back pass, to a player in an offside position…the attacker is not offside. What I don’t understand is how Salah is not in an offside position when he has made an obvious attempt to stop (save) the ball from going near the goal.

Football is being made unnecessarily more complicated for the purpose of making VAR work.

 

[Carsy]

One takeaway from last night is Julen Lopetegui’s passion for his team is night and day compared to Bruno’s relaxed style. Julen looks like a true leader.

In regards to the “guessing” linesman I hope someone pisses on his cornflakes this morning.

If Julen is like this every game, I can see why he needed a break to recharge his batteries!!

 

[Carsy]

I understand why when a defender plays the ball deliberately, as in a back pass, to a player in an offside position…the attacker is not offside. What I don’t understand is how Salah is not in an offside position when he has made an obvious attempt to stop (save) the ball from going near the goal.

Football is being made unnecessarily more complicated for the purpose of making VAR work.

I guess you could argue what defines ‘near the goal’

The rule is open to so much interpretation. Its piss poor.

Although, I would say toti should not be heading the ball like that either!

 

[AndyWolves]

My only justification here to avoid the conspiracies is that the linesman has mentioned live that he thinks Nunes is offside, hasn’t flagged as that’s the guidance, play has continued where there is another few close offside calls but deemed onside, ball goes in and then he “forgets” that he has originally said Nunes is offside, so is reminded to do the soft signal of offside. Obviously with the intention of VAR clarifying, which it then couldn’t do so had to go with on field call…

Yeah I think you're right

Two scenarios as i see it

A) Lino says to ref "I think Nunes is offside when he plays the ball back in". Ref says to Lino "raise your flag and force VAR to check it out". VAR can't check it out and we end up with the decision standing.

B) Ref goes "Shit, wolves have scored, lino raise your flag cos we know VAR won't overturn it because we want Liverpool to not lose here"

One is more tongue in cheek than the other

 

[prawnking]

The rule is open to so much interpretation. Its piss poor.

I hate whinging and also sounding like a soft conspiracist, but it seems all these 'interpretations' and mistakes rarely seem to benefit us or clubs like us.

I'm glad JL didn't take it lying down (but was still mature and respectful)

 

[The Saturday Boy]

I guess you could argue what defines ‘near the goal’

The rule is open to so much interpretation. Its piss poor.

Although, I would say toti should not be heading the ball like that either!

Pretty much what I am arguing.

No offside because of deliberate play (a case study) - Dutch Referee Blog

Interesting case study: no offside because of deliberate play by a Liverpool defender. Jon Moss made the right call. But why is he correct?

www.dutchreferee.com

Last example in this link

No deliberate save​

This was clearly a miskick, but the ball ends somewhere else. The Laws of the Game add something. “A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save by any opponent) is not considered to have gained an advantage.”

The defender is a few metres outside of his own penalty area. The LOTG only talk about a “save” when “a player stops, or attempts to stop, a ball which is going into or very close to the goal with any part of the body except the hands/arms.”

A defender outside the box is not very close to the goal, so this is not a deliberate save. Correct call by Jon Moss.

A forward, inside the box in front of goal and with only the keeper to beat. Most people would consider that to be close…unlike the example above. It wouldn’t be difficult to define what “close to the goal” means and codify it in the rules.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone on here…but there has been much discussion about Toti’s goal but I think Salah’s is more problemati. Toti’s header was not a great bit of defending and he got punished for it. Salah made his run too early and was rewarded for it.

 

[Carsy]

I hate whinging and also sounding like a soft conspiracist, but it seems all these 'interpretations' and mistakes rarely seem to benefit us or clubs like us.

I'm glad JL didn't take it lying down (but was still mature and respectful)

The usual argument of ‘top teams get more decisions because they attack more so have more chance to get these decisions’ doesn’t really apply when I can’t recall a smaller team getting a decision like that to for them against a top team

 

[jd1981]

As said Anfield one of the most famous grounds in the world has blind spots for VAR.
The fact it’s able to check one offside for one team and not the other in the same game makes the system completely flawed.
I don’t believe in a conscious bias towards big clubs, nevertheless if you’re an official you know giving bigger clubs the benefit of the doubt means you get far less shit.
Again having Mike Dean on VAR in a game involving a Merseyside club again isn’t sensible.
It’s just not a sensible call having someone who lives on the Wirral where there’s a big proportion of Liverpool fans making key decisions. As said not a conscious bias.

 

[Carsy]

Perhaps semi automated will be the best step.as per the sky sports article on the decisions

 

[Sniffer]

The BBC have got the offsides as the main story on their sport homepage with a beefed up piece compared to last night including Mark Pougatch questioning if it was Lord Lucan offside for Toti’s goal. Karl Henry also getting a tweet mentioning that he wanted the Salah goal rules changed years ago. The trouble is Karl, when the rest of your views are so shite (IMO Paul ) then nobody wants to listen to anything else you say.

 

[jd1981]

With the Salah goal it’s more a case of utter stupidity with the law. Basically if Salah isn’t where he is then Toti doesn’t head the ball.
How in gods name is he supposed to know that Salah has gone to early.

 

[PuntsWolf]

I understand why when a defender plays the ball deliberately, as in a back pass, to a player in an offside position…the attacker is not offside. What I don’t understand is how Salah is not in an offside position when he has made an obvious attempt to stop (save) the ball from going near the goal.

Football is being made unnecessarily more complicated for the purpose of making VAR work.

I don’t think that is given as offside pre VAR. Thierry Henry was scoring “offside” goals 20 years ago.

I can handle this decision as I think Toti should just clear it and it’s not even difficult.

There are countless times when a cross comes in and there is an offside player, a defender shanks a clearance and someone scores in the box or falls to someone on the edge who scores. Yes it’s rarely the offside player doing so but the point still stands.

Not saying I think it’s right or wrong but I’m OK with the decision, and it’s how rhe game has been for as long as I can remember.

The other decision is factually wrong though and that’s the annoyance.

I feel for Toti. He’s made a mistake which nearly cost us the game. He then gets a chance to win it at Anfield, in front of the fans, on TV and it’s robbed from him due to incompetence