Crypto Currency Thread

[Alan]

Daft question time - For the average Joe with nothing to hide who would pay tax on any profit does it matter if it’s anonymous or not?

Probably not, but anonymity gets parroted a lot as a "benefit" of crypto vs. fiat, and it's a total fallacy, as is the "decentralization" aspect.

As you can't simply buy things with crypto, you're ultimately still beholden to fiat at the end of the day.

 

[KentWolf]

Probably not, but anonymity gets parroted a lot as a "benefit" of crypto vs. fiat, and it's a total fallacy, as is the "decentralization" aspect.

As you can't simply buy things with crypto, you're ultimately still beholden to fiat at the end of the day.

You can buy things with crypto

 

[Alan]

You can buy things with crypto

And 99% of those transactions are converted to fiat in-situ. Crypto is a middleman with only speculative value; at the end of the day it is still dollars/pounds that matter. No smart contract can undo that, and whilst the value of the currency and even the gas prices can fluctuate so wildly, no legitimate business will ever rely on crypto over fiat. Simple as.

 

[KentWolf]

And 99% of those transactions are converted to fiat in-situ. Crypto is a middleman with only speculative value; at the end of the day it is still dollars/pounds that matter. No smart contract can undo that, and whilst the value of the currency and even the gas prices can fluctuate so wildly, no legitimate business will ever rely on crypto over fiat. Simple as.

That is a possibility but I'm not as sure as you. For me it is speculative but I also think that with continued improvements crypto will become something you can pay for a coffee with via your mobile.

 

[pr0sl0]

There are cryptocurrencies which have anonymity baked into the design, fwiw. Monero is by far the most popular - it's the de facto fiat currency on many dark web markets these days, with Bitcoin largely an investment asset instead.

 

[pr0sl0]

That is a possibility but I'm not as sure as you. For me it is speculative but I also think that with continued improvements crypto will become something you can pay for a coffee with via your mobile.

Never, ever happening, for the same reason we're never going to be able to walk into a cafe and pay for a coffee with a savings bond. You might find some quirky place that would go out of their way to accept unusual currency, but it's always been a gimmick everywhere it's been tried.

Crypto is inferior to fiat currency in every way as cash (and I include card and bank transactions in there) - even the ones which are specifically designed to be primarily used for everyday transactions. It's an inherent flaw in their architecture. They have edge use cases in other contexts but for the most part they do only two things effectively: 1) Allow people to buy and sell stuff they don't want the government to know about, 2) Operate as a new kind of investment asset class.

 

[Alan]

Monero is still traceable, even with their "security features" you really need to launder your currency through multiple Monero wallets to really keep the anonymity, well, anonymous.

That said, it is the only one that allows users to actually secure their history. They just have to jump through extra hoops, which... YMMV on how worth it that is.

 

[pr0sl0]

Monero is still traceable, even with their "security features" you really need to launder your currency through multiple Monero wallets to really keep the anonymity, well, anonymous.

Sure, but it is trivially easy. And even with the most traceable coins, all you have to do is convert from one to another to break the chain.

 

[KentWolf]

There are cryptocurrencies which have anonymity baked into the design, fwiw. Monero is by far the most popular - it's the de facto fiat currency on many dark web markets these days, with Bitcoin largely an investment asset instead.

A number of dark web markets have tried to move away from BTC to such as Monero and XRP but they have all had to start taking BTC as well. I guess that's simply because it is the most widely available and easiest to buy. For instance the UK company I buy crypto from only sells a small handful of different cryptos.
I am only aware of dark net markets for research purposes.

 

[pr0sl0]

I am only aware of dark net markets for research purposes.

Same, officer, same...

 

[Alan]

Sure, but it is trivially easy. And even with the most traceable coins, all you have to do is convert from one to another to break the chain.

My understanding is that you only need to fuck up the laundering once and you've basically shat the whole bed.

Granted, I read about crypto, not trade it myself. Grain of salt and all that.

 

[KentWolf]

Never, ever happening, for the same reason we're never going to be able to walk into a cafe and pay for a coffee with a savings bond. You might find some quirky place that would go out of their way to accept unusual currency, but it's always been a gimmick everywhere it's been tried.

Crypto is inferior to fiat currency in every way as cash (and I include card and bank transactions in there) - even the ones which are specifically designed to be primarily used for everyday transactions. It's an inherent flaw in their architecture. They have edge use cases in other contexts but for the most part they do only two things effectively: 1) Allow people to buy and sell stuff they don't want the government to know about, 2) Operate as a new kind of investment asset class.

Got to say that I think the statement it is never going to happen is plainly wrong. Saying it probably won't happen I can accept.

 

[Alan]

Got to say that I think the statement it is never going to happen is plainly wrong. Saying it probably won't happen I can accept.

Let's turn it the other way: what problems with fiat currency does crypto actually solve? Why should people adopt it?

 

[KentWolf]

Let's turn it the other way: what problems with fiat currency does crypto actually solve? Why should people adopt it?

It will be a simple way of transferring funds without the need for a bank. It's not hard to work that out Alan. It might not be close to that atm but it will get closer.
Napoleon thought the idea of steam powered ships was ridiculous. And many other examples.

 

[Alan]

Okay, that's a point. What does taking banks out of the equation gain for us? How does keeping things on the blockchain rather than on bank statements tangibly change the use of our expendable income? If banks are bad, are exchanges not also bad?

Further, how do we expect banks to just accept an alternative when they have the funding and political clout to put a stop to that happening?

 

[KentWolf]

Okay, that's a point. What does taking banks out of the equation gain for us? How does keeping things on the blockchain rather than on bank statements tangibly change the use of our expendable income? If banks are bad, are exchanges not also bad?

Further, how do we expect banks to just accept an alternative when they have the funding and political clout to put a stop to that happening?

Yes there are lots of obstacles. Don't mean it won't happen. The advantages? Blockchain is the future, I think.

We've seen various governments trying to regulate crypto, very harshly in some cases. Of course the traditional banks don't want it. But somehow, despite all the opposition, crypto is still with us.

 

[Alan]

You, uh, didn't really answer any of my questions.

Why is blockchain the future? Again, what do we gain by having a publicly accessible record of every transaction made with a given type of currency?

 

[KentWolf]

You, uh, didn't really answer any of my questions.

Why is blockchain the future? Again, what do we gain by having a publicly accessible record of every transaction made with a given type of currency?

I'm too stoned to continue this. I'll tryand answer your questions tomorrow

 

[Alan]

I've never simultaneously felt so at odds and yet so kindred with someone.

I'm not trying to be a dick, really, I've just never yet heard anyone give answers to those questions that felt... realistic, let's say.

 

[KentWolf]

Okay, that's a point. What does taking banks out of the equation gain for us? How does keeping things on the blockchain rather than on bank statements tangibly change the use of our expendable income? If banks are bad, are exchanges not also bad?

Further, how do we expect banks to just accept an alternative when they have the funding and political clout to put a stop to that happening?

Okay, lets try this.

What does taking banks out of the equation mean? Well, banks make lots of money and remember 2008? Wouldn't happen with blockchain. I think. Assuming we are using straight wallet to wallet transactions then I think deffo.

I don't trust crypto exchanges and have never used one. Essentially exchanges act as a combo of banks, stock markets and spread betting. I think people who keep money on exchanges are risking every penny they have on that exchange. So many exchanges have been broken I don't believe it's worth the risk.

So what I'm trying to say is that crypto can replace standard fiat currency. Just as some pubs and stuff now only take card payments.

The advantages? Not sure really. I just like the idea.

Don't worry Alan I might not post in the football threads (cos I think everybody knows much more than me and when I do have something to say it's already been said by several people so I don't bother) but I read your posts. I know you are not a dick.

If I have failed to answer all your points then reiterate them and I'll try when my head is more down to earth.