Crusaders (H) 25-07 Build Up

[MARKakaJIM]

Ah - new season, new ridiculously OTT matchday thread! Come on guys - try to use a bit of perspective. This was effectively England v San Marino. It's bloody difficult to break teams down who effectively camp in their own box and make it an attack v defence training session. Add to that the stifling heat and the fact it's still July - preseason - and it's not a surprise that we were frustrated throughout.

Traore was fine but again - it's not easy for him to create when the opposition pack the penalty area. Won us plenty of corners, beat the full back(s) countless times - he didn't do much wrong IMO. Don't really understand why he got such extreme criticism. MGW showed some glimpses but same issue - trying to break down stubborn resistance. Donk was my MOTM, and Moutinho tried to get things ticking.

The chemistry amongst the forward line did look different when Raul came on - one fantastic bit of vision almost sent Jota through before the ref pulled it back but it's not something we'd seen previously in the game. I don't mean that as a criticism of MGW at all - Raul is on another level when it comes to linking with Jota.

Anyway, I have never experienced such a hellish journey to a football match before. Bloody trains - it normally takes me 45 minutes but this time it was over 3 hours. My first ever European game and I didn't have a drop of beer!! Sorry to have missed most of you but it was great to randomly see Mark for the first time in about 7 years (who I didn't recognise to begin with!), and Darlo as well who I bumped into by the subway.

Sorry I didn't say bye! Lost you on the stairs and thought it would've been a bit weird hanging around like a stray dog. Nice to see you though mate.

There was immediately a lot more impetus when Raul came on (although individually he didn't do a great deal). But that's the difference between a £32m striker who's the best player for his national team and a 19 year old who isn't a striker.

Genuinely surprised at the reaction on here. We don't batter teams at the best of times, let alone in 33 degree heat in pre-season.

Wish Jota had scored on that run where he skated past three men, fantastic skill.

Jota could've easily had a hatrick, and the outlook is probably completely different if that happens, should've at least hit the target on his left pretty early on but thrashed at it and dragged it very wide when the keeper just looked to have froze, the fortunate rebound too should've been buried but the keeper did well when Jota gave him a chance to stop it. You'd think Crusaders would've probably just given up if they'd been 3 goals or so down by half time but with it staying so close for so long, on the scoreboard at least, probably gave them the resolve to battle on.

 

[Langers]

Sorry I didn't say bye! Lost you on the stairs and thought it would've been a bit weird hanging around like a stray dog. Nice to see you though mate.

No worries, Mini Langers is a slow walker - thought you'd seen the rainfall and made a dash for it!

 

[Tom Hark]

I fail to see the correlation between winning to 0 at home in a glorified pre-season game and "disappointing". But that's just me.

'Frustrating' might be a better choice of word, but the two emotions aren't far apart. I think it's just that, with the huge gulf in class, people expect us/Nuno to find a way to overcome the agricultural tactics we were faced with. Of course, unless you're Man City, theory and practice rarely align. (As I said at half time, you see this sort of thing in the FA Cup all the time.) Yes, we won easily and, yes, we'll progress, but personally I think there's nothing better than to feel a real sense of pride in your team's performance, and when you don't come away with that sense it's a bit, well, disappointing. I don't think that's quite the same as entitlement.

Biggest plus for me last night was Traore. For the first time I get the feeling he can be turned into a real asset. Credit to Nuno (again).

 

[Wolvensam]

Didn't Traore have quite an impressive Asia Trophy, too? I think credit where it's due: Nuno and the coaches have been working hard with him, and he is improving.

 

[Langers]

Didn't Traore have quite an impressive Asia Trophy, too? I think credit where it's due: Nuno and the coaches have been working hard with him, and he is improving.

I agree. I've criticised him a lot but I can definitely see some improvement.

 

[Wolvensam]

It's not going to be a huge transformation overnight, but compared to the tail-end of last season his growth in confidence is very evident.

 

[Kenny]

I presume we sent him for an op after last season which prevents him looking at the ground. Much more aware of what is going on around him

 

[b3h]

Donk - Thought he had a good game, didn't expect anyone to say he was poor tbh

MGW - Other way round unfortunately. Not his best day but is playing up front alongside another small striker

Traore - A decent game for him. Saw him look up a lot to see what was on. Not the best crossing/passing generally, Jota did well with the assist behind him. Cut in a few times which I think he's been told to try out. Would help us out as the defender won't know he is ALWAYS going to go down the line

Vinagre - A bit frustrating, nothing really came off until the goal. Perhaps should have squared it to whoever was on the edge of box towards the end when he cut inside and spooned it with his right foot

Overall - One step away from "only" 1.0 which is where the frustration is coming from I think. Have a feeling people will be arguing about breaking teams down all season again


Think that covers the talking points

Watched at home. It's good to be back. Can't wait for next Thurs already.

 

[Deano]

Vinagre was having a bit of a mare until the goal, kept getting dispossessed and nothing was coming off for him at all.

 

[Wolvensam]

I don't really see how Traore is any different from Vinagre: both have a habit of making the wrong choice, both don't always look up and around them, and both of them try one trick too many or try to get past one defender too many.

 

[Kenny]

I don't really see how Traore is any different from Vinagre: both have a habit of making the wrong choice, both don't always look up and around them, and both of them try one trick too many or try to get past one defender too many.

To be fair Vinagre has had a lot more good days than Traore. Not like Traore has been outstanding before yesterday and was just unlucky to be getting the fans moaning at him

 

[Kenny]

Vinagre was having a bit of a mare until the goal, kept getting dispossessed and nothing was coming off for him at all.

The well watered pitch didn't help his OTT step overs, fell on his arse 3 times.

 

[Wolvensam]

To be fair Vinagre has had a lot more good days than Traore. Not like Traore has been outstanding before yesterday and was just unlucky to be getting the fans moaning at him

No denying that mate. I do find Vinagre frustrating sometimes though when he tries to do a bit too much - same as with Adama. Young players for you, though.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

I do find it strange that when we suggest ways that we can improve , there seems to be a chorus that we are being negative, its only a pre season friendly etc.

I really dont see it like that. Last year we had an achilles heel against sides that came to defend. Huddersfield, Brighton its well documented and debated. The first time this season we face the same issue and again we struggle. I dont think that it is unreasonable for fans to highlight this issue. Personally, we are playing the same as last year and if you dont do things differently how can you expect a different outcome? We also dont have any new faces yet that could add something a bit differnt to the mix so if Crusaders management watched a number of our home games last season they could have come up with that two banks of 5 plan that worked.

Again, I think if we score early away we will get a shed load. It suits us more and they cannot set up the same. That happened with Watford at their place last season. Only Huddersfield and Brighton set up exactly the same in the games where we were awful last year. To me its not negativity. It is fans seeing what they had seen a number of times previously and stating it, questionning and highlighting that there are still concerns that need to be addressed if we are to kick on this season. I put my head on the block on the Cybertosis thread in May with what I thought and to me little has changed.

On a positive , Traore looks as if he is benefiting from the coaching. He really did look as if he was trying to work to a plan last night rather than the headless road runner that we have had at times. In my view (and its ok to disagree)MGW must get the basics right first before he trys the fancy stuff. Flicks , tricks and dummies look great but if you cant pass 10 yards to a team mate it all breaks down. He has to finish better to if he plays up top. He has played 55 times and scored nil. Not getting on his back as he is talent, but those stats must improve and quickly if he is to be an integral cog in this squad.

We are no longer the unknown new boys. Teams will have learnt from last year and will not be so quick to play to our strengths. So there has to be improvment in the speed we do things and with a bit more inventiveness. Raul added that extra spark when he came on. Its easy to say we need more 30 m players but we probably do!

So , I am not a whinging entitled arse , but I do reserve the right to chunter when we as a team do the same thing badly , and I will also give praise where its due( Traore). We are in a great position in the tie and have just had our biggest win in europe for over 40 years. So its not at all bad.

 

[jdrodrigues]

I do find it strange that when we suggest ways that we can improve , there seems to be a chorus that we are being negative, its only a pre season friendly etc.

I really dont see it like that. Last year we had an achilles heel against sides that came to defend. Huddersfield, Brighton its well documented and debated. The first time this season we face the same issue and again we struggle. I dont think that it is unreasonable for fans to highlight this issue. Personally, we are playing the same as last year and if you dont do things differently how can you expect a different outcome? We also dont have any new faces yet that could add something a bit differnt to the mix so if Crusaders management watched a number of our home games last season they could have come up with that two banks of 5 plan that worked.

Again, I think if we score early away we will get a shed load. It suits us more and they cannot set up the same. That happened with Watford at their place last season. Only Huddersfield and Brighton set up exactly the same in the games where we were awful last year. To me its not negativity. It is fans seeing what they had seen a number of times previously and stating it, questionning and highlighting that there are still concerns that need to be addressed if we are to kick on this season. I put my head on the block on the Cybertosis thread in May with what I thought and to me little has changed.

On a positive , Traore looks as if he is benefiting from the coaching. He really did look as if he was trying to work to a plan last night rather than the headless road runner that we have had at times. In my view (and its ok to disagree)MGW must get the basics right first before he trys the fancy stuff. Flicks , tricks and dummies look great but if you cant pass 10 yards to a team mate it all breaks down. He has to finish better to if he plays up top. He has played 55 times and scored nil. Not getting on his back as he is talent, but those stats must improve and quickly if he is to be an integral cog in this squad.

We are no longer the unknown new boys. Teams will have learnt from last year and will not be so quick to play to our strengths. So there has to be improvment in the speed we do things and with a bit more inventiveness. Raul added that extra spark when he came on. Its easy to say we need more 30 m players but we probably do!

So , I am not a whinging entitled arse , but I do reserve the right to chunter when we as a team do the same thing badly , and I will also give praise where its due( Traore). We are in a great position in the tie and have just had our biggest win in europe for over 40 years. So its not at all bad.

Sorry, Cyber, but while I do think we showed issues last season against defending sides, it did not happen yesterday at all. We had no problem whatsoever of creating multiple goal chances, one after the other. We were not in any danger of conceding or looked close to a breaking point.

It was a one sided game, or as close as one can be. We just squandered a lot of goal chances.

 

[Tony Towner]

Seen a number of comments about how next week will be different and they'll come at us more. I don't think they will, the tie has always been about damage limitation for them, the manager said as such before last night. I think we'll see the same again, unless it's 00 with 20 to go

 

[White Wolf]

Not a big Traore fan as is known but I thought he did well, he was the only person regularly beating his man and putting a cross in (even if nobody got on the end of it). He won the majority of our corners which is where I felt we really let ourselves down, never threatened from those. MGW looked out of position and struggled against their taller, more physical centre-halves and we looked better with Jimenez on, as you'd expect. Dendoncker looked good and I thought Jonny and Vinagre were both very poor, as was Jota second half - we didn't do much at all down the left.

Crusaders didn't look like total jokers in fairness - well drilled and defended resolutely. Thought they looked up for it more than Brighton did back in April as well. 2 goal cushion should be enough but we should play the first team again next week IMO.

 

[Dinowolf]

MGW scored a cracker against Newcastle, and we did win 2-0 last night. They couldn't have complained if it had been 3 or 4 with the chances we spurned.

 

[Banjo]

My praise for Traore comes from the fact that he beat his man (/men) almost every time. The problem that then happened was he was crossing into Jota, MGW, Jonny and Moutinho. Only Dendoncker had any chance of getting on the end of anything that came across.

 

[Lycan]

There's also the fact that Crusaders CBs can deal with crosses all day long. You have to do something different, play 1/2 touch around them or run at them and make them commit and make a stupid error. Didn't think we tried enough from range either, there were loads of opportunities for that too.

Btw did anyone have a better view of our penalty shout in the 2nd half? I completely missed it.